Too bad there were not more MDs like you. No offense but my experience with "medical professionals" over the last 60 years is that most are quacks. Covid exposed the medical industry for what it was/is about...greed. Gotta make that Porsche payment.
Too bad there were not more MDs like you. No offense but my experience with "medical professionals" over the last 60 years is that most are quacks. Covid exposed the medical industry for what it was/is about...greed. Gotta make that Porsche payment.
Never had a Porsche or anything else in that sort of price range 🤣. I don’t have a very high view of most MDs, either. I preferred the engineering students from my undergrad days over most I was in med school with.
One of the problems is that the process of becoming a doc: 4 yrs +/- for undergrad degree (and for some, add’l years in grad school trying to be more competitive as an applicant), 4 yrs in med school, and then 3-4-5+ years in residency & possibly add’l for fellowship. That is a LONG time, and it’s generally spent quite isolated from “normal people.” Then there is the - sort of like a fraternity hazing or gang entry - crap you are put through. I’m surprised I didn’t get kicked out when I argued with residents about “scut work” (go get my charts, slave!) and being yelled at because somebody else yelled at them. Now this wasn’t constant, but enough that I just never WANTED to be like that. I thought I wanted to be a surgeon, but I couldn’t stand most of the general surgery residents. Ortho was more laid back, and they LOVED my engineer mind. The 5 years of every 3rd night on call wasn’t something I (or my young bride) wanted.
All of that stuff is happening in adolescence, which developmentally is prolonged when in a “student” or other “non-adult” role. So there is some psychological impact, and of course there tends to be somewhat of a selection bias anyway (it seemed to me that admission committees unconsciously chose people more like themselves, when other qualifications were comparable.
Realize most get out with MASSIVE debt, so they are committed to maximizing $$. A really bad trend I became aware of is that the income potential of specialty (residency choice) correlates almost perfectly with class ranking. In other words for some years the highest ranking students end up in the residencies for the highest paying specialties. It was NOT like this back in my days!
Hope this adds a little light ... I suppose this is yet another topic I ought to write a post to discuss. But understand, these factors seem to have produced some bad characteristics in these more recently trained docs. Money - bowing to authority - failure to THINK INDEPENDENTLY - fear of “coloring outside the lines.”
It is funny. I calculated the amount “the king of the hill” neurosurgeon in Seattle makes per year. Don’t care. He fixed my Lovely Bride’s neck with very minimal residual symptoms. I estimate he’s clocking around $20m a year. Yes he works his Asz off; and Yes, he drives a Porsche.😁
Edit - I cannot imagine what high risk neurosurgical malpractice insurance costs; so, take that plus 2 neurosurgery P.A.’s, staff and office space costs..off the gross.
But seriously, there is a rather crazy process involving ridiculous hours - sleep deprivation OVER MONTHS can have significant effects. I spent 1-1/2 years at a Navy teaching hospital, and honestly I have never seen so many depressed residents in my life. The hours they worked were seriously impacting them.
This does lead to abusing the next generation, just like inter-generational abuse in families. There is a reflexive sense of “superiority” to fend off the truth of being a poorly paid & overworked MD, and a concept Freud called “identification with the aggressor”. You emulate those who abuse you. It was really just a statement of the Stockholm Syndrome before that came into existence.
The sense of entitlement (economic, power, authority, and infallibility) that one sees among physicians has its roots here, in my mind. The training approach was unnecessary, yet it continued. Laws were passed limiting the number of hours residents could work, but I am told it is not enforced.
Indeed! This was part of the laws limiting the number of hours, I think even more than concern about the impact on the residents. They wanted to limit potential liabilities!
Because of a death, I accepted additional responsibilities…I did 16 - 100 hour weeks in a row with “Game Face On”. It wrecked me. Thus, 16’ travel trailer, dog and packing parachutes. Re-entry into human medicine was strict - 3 days x 12 hours/day and I’m out.I have a hand specialist (fellowship-trained) friend that is one of those that does not require much sleep. He is at it 18-20 hours a day. Nutz. He is the one “they” call at 2AM for upper extremities gone really bad.
Too bad there were not more MDs like you. No offense but my experience with "medical professionals" over the last 60 years is that most are quacks. Covid exposed the medical industry for what it was/is about...greed. Gotta make that Porsche payment.
Yup. Them Porsches attract the chicks for sure!
Never had a Porsche or anything else in that sort of price range 🤣. I don’t have a very high view of most MDs, either. I preferred the engineering students from my undergrad days over most I was in med school with.
One of the problems is that the process of becoming a doc: 4 yrs +/- for undergrad degree (and for some, add’l years in grad school trying to be more competitive as an applicant), 4 yrs in med school, and then 3-4-5+ years in residency & possibly add’l for fellowship. That is a LONG time, and it’s generally spent quite isolated from “normal people.” Then there is the - sort of like a fraternity hazing or gang entry - crap you are put through. I’m surprised I didn’t get kicked out when I argued with residents about “scut work” (go get my charts, slave!) and being yelled at because somebody else yelled at them. Now this wasn’t constant, but enough that I just never WANTED to be like that. I thought I wanted to be a surgeon, but I couldn’t stand most of the general surgery residents. Ortho was more laid back, and they LOVED my engineer mind. The 5 years of every 3rd night on call wasn’t something I (or my young bride) wanted.
All of that stuff is happening in adolescence, which developmentally is prolonged when in a “student” or other “non-adult” role. So there is some psychological impact, and of course there tends to be somewhat of a selection bias anyway (it seemed to me that admission committees unconsciously chose people more like themselves, when other qualifications were comparable.
Realize most get out with MASSIVE debt, so they are committed to maximizing $$. A really bad trend I became aware of is that the income potential of specialty (residency choice) correlates almost perfectly with class ranking. In other words for some years the highest ranking students end up in the residencies for the highest paying specialties. It was NOT like this back in my days!
Hope this adds a little light ... I suppose this is yet another topic I ought to write a post to discuss. But understand, these factors seem to have produced some bad characteristics in these more recently trained docs. Money - bowing to authority - failure to THINK INDEPENDENTLY - fear of “coloring outside the lines.”
It is funny. I calculated the amount “the king of the hill” neurosurgeon in Seattle makes per year. Don’t care. He fixed my Lovely Bride’s neck with very minimal residual symptoms. I estimate he’s clocking around $20m a year. Yes he works his Asz off; and Yes, he drives a Porsche.😁
Edit - I cannot imagine what high risk neurosurgical malpractice insurance costs; so, take that plus 2 neurosurgery P.A.’s, staff and office space costs..off the gross.
My wife, same deal…Me medical background and “dealing” with insurance companies, her’s clocked at $39k. Don’t care…make her not a quadriplegic. Ed
Thanks for the insight. As for hazing, try making E-7 in the Navy or E-4 in the Marines...now that was hazing. Outlawed now.
But seriously, there is a rather crazy process involving ridiculous hours - sleep deprivation OVER MONTHS can have significant effects. I spent 1-1/2 years at a Navy teaching hospital, and honestly I have never seen so many depressed residents in my life. The hours they worked were seriously impacting them.
This does lead to abusing the next generation, just like inter-generational abuse in families. There is a reflexive sense of “superiority” to fend off the truth of being a poorly paid & overworked MD, and a concept Freud called “identification with the aggressor”. You emulate those who abuse you. It was really just a statement of the Stockholm Syndrome before that came into existence.
The sense of entitlement (economic, power, authority, and infallibility) that one sees among physicians has its roots here, in my mind. The training approach was unnecessary, yet it continued. Laws were passed limiting the number of hours residents could work, but I am told it is not enforced.
It’s worrisome that patients are treated by someone who is seriously sleep deprived.
Indeed! This was part of the laws limiting the number of hours, I think even more than concern about the impact on the residents. They wanted to limit potential liabilities!
Because of a death, I accepted additional responsibilities…I did 16 - 100 hour weeks in a row with “Game Face On”. It wrecked me. Thus, 16’ travel trailer, dog and packing parachutes. Re-entry into human medicine was strict - 3 days x 12 hours/day and I’m out.I have a hand specialist (fellowship-trained) friend that is one of those that does not require much sleep. He is at it 18-20 hours a day. Nutz. He is the one “they” call at 2AM for upper extremities gone really bad.
I was a doc in the Navy, spent most of the time taking care of Marines. I do have a bit of familiarity with
... those sorts of things 😎
I knew there was a reason I liked you. I never had a problem with Navy docs.