Although the American public is lied to about nearly everything at this point, the cause of Floyd's death is not one of them. I should know as I was the medical expert who testified in his civil case.
I saw with my own eyes that the Minneapolis PD police officers’ manual recommended such chokeholds to subdue violent people resisting arrest. A murder conviction not only requires a dead person but also the intent to kill someone. Legally speaking, you can commit a homicide by accident but not murder. Nobody ever showed a shred of evidence that officer Chauvin intended to kill George Floyd in front of cell phone cameras. That would be incredibly stupid. To suggest that he was guilty of murder is in my opinion defamatory. Inadvertent homicide? Perhaps. Intentional murder? Ridiculous, in my opinion. Officer chauvin in my opinion is a political prisoner, the victim of a jury afraid that the media would release their home addresses if they didn’t cooperate with the regime change operation that was the George Floyd circus.
I struggled with this last year when I found out Pierre had done this expert witness review and wrote him because I was (and am) SO angry about yet another multimillion dollar 'handout' from the the tax payer to try to avoid the rioting and destruction that so often follows such deaths. Surely, in a more normal society, such a death would have been called unintentional killing, and not EVER "murder" which requires intentional planning and follow-through.
Pierre was kind (or exasperated) enough to answer me and provide a link to his report. Every fiber in my body resists the truth, but since I trust Pierre, I unhappily but willing accept his determination. It was a *political* decision to provide millions to various family members of a man killed through happenstance by police action. That did not stop rioting and looting and burning across the planet, and a number of killings of people in NO WAY involved! But that's not Pierre's fault nor anything of his doing.
I was beyond offended to see an interview with the mother of one of Floyd's children (a teen boy) when she said she had to TELL the boy that was his father -- cause the boy did not know him. I was and am horrified at the sanctification of a drug-using criminal merely for the fact that he died (unintentionally!) during a counterfeiting arrest. Instead of his death being the motivation for mothers of black children to RAISE THEM to be productive members of the various nations they are living in, it was and is used as an excuse for even MORE uncivil and violent acts, more looting followed by blaming stores for leaving black areas instead of blaming black looters for driving them out of business.
But these are civilization ills, and will not be healed or repaired by resisting the truth of an absolute expert in his field because his expert opinion in unpalatable.
Floyd's death may have been unintentional, but it was also easily preventable, as Dr. Kory's analysis makes clear. One doesn't have to "sanctify a drug-using criminal" to want the people involved to be held accountable.
"Accountable"? I absolutely agree! The causing of unintentional death is STILL a crime. But accountable on its ACTUAL legal face; not on exaggerated and politically/racially motivated, not factually accurate, charges, meant to make hay for the DA and judge! Accountable for their ACTUAL "crime"; NOT way over-charged and over sentenced for political reasons, to try to prevent riots and burnings that happened anyway!
"Easily preventable"? Not sure I agree with that.
Ever heard of the tale of the Boy Who Cried Wolf? Granted, it may (or may NOT) have been this particular 'boy' who cried 'wolf' multiple times. (And oh fer cryin' out loud -- that is a REFERENCE TO THE CHILDREN'S TALE. If any of you cannot see a differentiation between a racial slur I would not use -- and a reference to a children's tale -- then you're not old enough to be reading on the computer!)
The "townspeople" (in this analogy, those would be the cops) had heard multiple cries of "wolf" ("I can't breath"); cries that nearly always turn out to be false and merely an attempt at tricking the cops. So, like the townspeople, when the latest 'cry of wolf' is heard, they are NOT going to believe it! NOT because they want o harm the person resisting arrest but because that's what many, many blacks being arrested claim.
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me many many times? I'm not likely to believe the latest cry of 'wolf' even when there actually IS a wolf! Expecting cops to be perfect when facing the "usual cries" is perhaps more than reasonable.
And of course, there's always the entirely reasonable: "if you DON'T want to get arrested for trying to pass counterfeit money -- DON'T TRY TO PASS COUNTERFEIT MONEY!"
I've said similar a million times. It will never end well while we expect police officers to remain angels while dealing all day, every day with the devils of society ... especially when nothing better is EVER expected of the devils. You're just making too much damned sense around here, Avalanche.
Thanks! I try. I'm ALWAYS angry at the destruction of my country by people who shouldn't be here or shouldn't be ALLOWED to run rampant like animals! I try to make sense for the "nice folks" who've bought the propaganda. (hey! JUST. LIKE. COVID.!!)
Alas, the ONLY way I see this destruction working out starts with blood and fire, and ends with a new country -- or a bunch of new nation-states!!
It would have been interesting to see the outcome if George Floyd ran amuck in Singapore!! I'm sure we all know what the outcome would have been. Floyd was a guy who held a gun up to a pregnant woman, As far as I'm concerned, Derek Chauvin saved the state of Minnesota a lot of money! It is an atrocity that he is in jail for doing his job. What have we learned about the Summer of 2020 when buildings were being burned down, and innocent people were murdered in the name of what FAKE social justice? That is bullshit!! It's a lie, and if upstanding Americans tolerate another Summer of 2020, we deserve it!! At 60 years old I refuse to cower to these cowards! ANTIFA and BLM my ASS!!
Avalanche... predictive words surely, and I would not have even commented if the cop had just shot Floyd. A neat double tap in the head and humanity is protected from yet another dangerous creep. But this cop was just as bad as Floyd. So a double tap for him too.
@JanC1955 - Your observation is SO correct! As the wife of a 32 yr retired (thank God!) LEO, the average person has ZERO idea what a police officer is faced with on the daily. And there's not much that compares to wondering if your spouse and father of your children will literally come home from work each night. My husband went through TWO separate "attempted murder of a peace officer" trials during his career, that both (luckily) ended in convictions of the perpetrator(s). One was a 85 year old black man that almost shot him in the head as he was bent over, changing the old man's flat tire on the side of the road!!
Dear ConcernedGrammy, Thank your husband for me and many others who have nothing but respect and gratitude for LEO's who serve our communities. The vilest criminal is afforded thorough discovery and due process and is consider innocent until proven guilty. The Woke police model is flipped to: every LEO is presumed guilty. It is as much by design as the Plandemic to destroy US. Interesting statistic: One of every 220 citizens will be accused of a violent crime that # is one out of every 352 Law enforcement officers. LEO's are some of our Best People.
And you might want to avoid aiming a loaded gun at a pregnant woman and robbing her blind and threatening to rape her, so you can pay for your next fix.
fallofMinneapolis.com update 12-7-23: 5 million views. Thank you Jim, I believe you posted about it early on and even gave towards the project. My husband was at a local meeting (Champlin MN) last nite: 12-6 Liz Collin and Police federation-President-at-the-time (still husband) Bob Kroll.
They were open to questions: "What was unusual about this case?" Kroll's answer: "Everything." FBI was called within hours." Police cameras were not released for two and a half months. Police Chief never gave the usual we're still investigating speech.
The following week in Mpls a man died of a fentanyl overdose in the back of a police car. No one but his family will ever know or say his name. The officers were actually overaccommadating to Mr. Floyd. See Who killed GF? centaurfilmworks.com. Also: Liz Collins book: They're Lying: Media, Left and death of GF. thelieexposed. Alpha news MN has ongoing coverage of things as they break on this case. Also givesendgo.com/Chauvin to help free an innocent man and breaking news.
Yes it was preventable in many ways. Primarily, he shouldn’t have resisted arrest. Secondly, officers should have handled things differently. I’m sure Chauvin ponders this every day in solitary confinement.
Is it actually the case that Chauvin is in solitary? He's now in a medium-security federal prison in Tucson -- probably safer for him than the state pen, so he wouldn't need to be in solitary for that reason.
Liz Collin -- formerly of WCCO-TV in Minneapolis, now with Alpha News -- has a documentary due out in mid-November on the case: https://www.thefallofminneapolis.com/ It's going to be freely available online, supported by (tax-deductible) crowd-funding. (I donated $250.)
In the video at that link, you can see her, briefly, talking on the phone with Chauvin in the slammer.
thefallofmpls.com documentary update: 12-7-23 : 5 million views, Liz and her husband Bob Kroll at local (mpls suburb mtg. last night 12-6-23). Thank you Paul137 for your early support. Kroll (police union president at the time) was there and was asked what was unusual about this case: Answer: "Everything." FBI was called within a few hours. Film released 11-16-23 . And then 11-24-23 Chauvin is stabbed 22 times by a FBI informant-mexican-mafia- inmate. Truth is Unstoppable and Goodness wins.
Thank you so much for spreading the truth. There is also givesendgo.com/Chauvin and a full expose film of all the withheld video: Who killed GF? centaurfilmworks.com. Thanks again for the donation, too.
Like you, I have such deep admiration and respect for Dr. Kory, plus a gut instinct he's the real deal, that while I believe Chauvin didn't stand a chance at trial and that the sainted Floyd family was sure to cash in big-time, Dr. K's expert analysis did convince me that Floyd would still be enjoying his life of crime had the officers handled him differently.
When you are committing crimes and doing drugs and taking advantage of people you will be put in harms way. There is a fine line in doing a hold with a fighting, drugged up man to keep the rest of the people safe and going too far. The police need to be taught good techniques and holds. But this was not planned murder.
Pierre Kory Plays the WHORE for Globalists on this one. To be fair he was rushed, restricted and submitted his paid for evaluation about the time of the burial of the Aretha Franklin coffin holding GF celebrated remains. Does anyone really think the bizarre racism mania/ defund police madness was spontaneous and organic?
Thank you. I am out of line. In fact i refuse to line up, refuse to comply and refuse to quit thinking for myself. Thank you again . . great compliment and affirmation in this day and age when we all must get in line or be cancelled . Liz collins wrote a book: They're lying: Media, Left and death of GF.
Police brutality expert George Parry (ironic name huh?) knowledge is good .net
Dr. Kory submitted his report 6-9-20, same day GF buried in TX. Info was highly restricted that early on. For an indepth : see Alpha news MN: May 27, 2121: "Medical experts presented contradictory testimony in Derek Chauvin trial." Worth a read.
And IF he were your doctor, would you just blow off his "opinion" because it's just an opinion? Or would you take it with GREAT seriousness because he has seen and treated HUNDREDS before you?
If you have a different opinion, then you had SURE better have a couple DECADES of doctoring on which to BASE your opinion...
I have the utmost respect for Dr. Kory's expertise (see my comment below - )...and I would certainly take his recommendations and explanations very serously....as a matter of fact, I have. Everything he recommended for treatment of Covid, i have followed. If I ended up in the ER, I would certainly want to be in his hands. Especially if it had to do with my lungs.
It is for a jury to decide...because opinions are just that. Experienced, and carrying a lot of weight, yes.
But the true cause of a death when you don't witness it?. My younger sister was supposed to be born deaf and blind because we children gave my mother German measles. She was the first woman in that state recommended for a therapeutic abortion, when abortions were illegal except in cases like this. This is over 60 years ago. She moved out of state to have my sister, and she was and is fine (and prettier and taller than i as well). I hope I am never put in the position of having to determine truth based on preponderance of evidence and facts that I am not qualified to assess the weight of.... That is something for a jury. They have to weigh facts based on autopsy that they are not qualified to interpret, but the jury renders only a verdict based on few facts and expert opinions from both sides.
Only God knows truth. People here are saying he died from this..or that...they are arguing what is truth. The argument here should not be about the cause of death, but whether or not the prosecution proved someting behond doubt. Oviously Dr. Kory's opinion - his expert opinon, carried the day. But please don't confuse a verdict with the actual truth, which we will never know.
I agree. The doctor makes recommendations/analysis based on his opinions. Doesnt mean you HAVE to believe every word. Its still just an opinion. Thats why we have second opinions. In case the first ones may not be right. I personally would need to know the exact amount of time between the still shot that shows the Fentanyl in his mouth (dont know how long he was in the car after that) plus the time it took to get him out of car and on ground, plus the 8 minutes the knee was on his back before he died, to make a decision on whether or not I believe 3 or 4 times the lethal amount of drugs could cause him to overdose in that amount of time. I would form my own opinion based on that and it would still be just that....an opinion. George proclaiming to not be able to breathe while he was still sitting upright in the car is also suspect IMO.
That is something for a jury? Somehow the mob is smarter than the individual? Is OJ's jury included in this broad generality, this sweeping paean to human perfection?
Kory admits to being surprised, why call him he's a medical malpractice guy.
Never had done a police brutality case. Never would do another one. The expert in this case is one George Parry: spectator.org and knowledgeisgood.net Givesendgo/ chain Free chauvin news
Duchess... one opinion is not as good as another. Some are ill-considered. Some are malicious. Others are the outcome of expert analysis. I would take Kory's over the view of somebody I do not know.
so did the jury. I dont have a problem with that. but people here are quarreling with a straw, as the expression goes. they are arguing about what they think is the truth, not what they think the medical evidence shows. The only one who explained what he thinks the medical evidence shows is Dr. Kory.
You don’t have to agree with Dr. Korey to respect his opinion. He has made his decision based on the evidence he was provided. That doesn’t make you wrong. I’m sure there is evidence you’ve considered that Dr. Korey has not. Your perspective is different than Dr. Korey’s.
I’ve noticed that we’ve become very tribal about our beliefs but these situations are rarely binary and usually involve multiple facets of complexity. We have forgotten how to say, “I understand why you believe what you believe” and leave it at that. Now, when we disagree with someone, it automatically negates everything they have to say about anything, or we have to surrender our beliefs and get in line with the “experts.” Funny how they’re forcing us into binary choices in situations with diverse factors while telling kids sex isn’t binary. Crazy times we’re living in.
It's one thing to trust Dr. Kory, quite another to trust that he was given complete accurate information when he was hired by GF attorney's Ben Crump et al with big money sites on Mpls MN. His report was signed 6-9-2020. The only info he had is what was provided him by GF attorneys. Within 48 hours Mpls Woke boy mayor and brothers of Gf were calling this incident a murder. This was before an autopsy that didn't come out until Friday. GF's ad hoc family had a gofundme up and running within 48 hours assisted by the whole law firm of B. Crump. That netted them 14.7 million before a complaint was filed (it broke the site's own rules for legitimacy) and it shut down. Meanwhile Boy mayor was weeping on GF's casket at the first of three funerals during lockdown and wearing an "I can't breathe" face mask. Spontaneous Protests? Nay. Highly organized. Mpls city council's first priority with Precinct 4 destroyed and burned out shells of bldgs was to ban the restraint that Officer Chauvin used and was illustrated in MPD manual using a three on one demonstration photo. Wake Up people. More is coming soon.
Master Kory has been put in a very awkward and untenable position similar to the world's health professionals "just following protocol": Covid, vaccines,etc.
The autopsy report IS "complete accurate information." (Or do you think Crump managed to edit it?! HA!) I believe/expect Dr Kory ALSO had the second autopsy report.
You are accurate about all the theatrics and stupidity of the black people smelling a HUUUUUGE payout! (Most esp. including Crump!) No question. I don't know HOW we stop that unAmerican playacting to get the biggest possible gibs! I WISH it were doable!
The following is ALSO "just" my opinion. I don't actually KNOW Kory, nor anyone ELSE in MINN. and I have a way WAY lesser medical background than Kory but over the past 3+ years, on the basis of every video or written information he has put on the web -- I have found him to be an honorable man. (I've also chuckled at his dismay at having to give up BEING an idiot-lib by tripping over the seamy underbelly of this world!) I've written here before: I HATE that he agreed to do this; yes I WISH some other lesser doc participated in the circus act.
I do not believe DOCTOR Kory was 'put in an awkward OR untenable position.' He was given ALL the available videos, the autopsy and tox report(s), and his decades of experience. IN. NO. WAY, was that "similar to just following protocols." The protocol for doing an expert report is to look at ALL the available info (NOT merely that provided by the hiring lawyer -- esp. NOT when that lawyer is a slime).
And yes, I do have the smallest niggling bits of 'oh crap; is this once an idiot-lib always an idiot-lib? COULD Kory have consciously or unconsciously always followed the liberal side of any dubious medical decision path? But I balance that with my OWN far, far, far "right" mistrust of lefties and blacks manipulating the courts, town administrators and idiot-libs... I mostly manage to 'control' my knee-jerk responses; although I did manage to seemingly annoy or affront Kory when I challenged him on this (was it a year ago now?) and he sent me to read his actual expert witness report. Having read and considered that report (again, with my medical background and continued self-study these past 20-30 years), I unhappily conclude there was nothing there to disagree with.
Then his excellent Ivermectin book came out -- with an expanded chapter ON the expert witness request and work -- and made it clear there was nothing there to object to. If you haven't read it -- both the book and esp. that chapter -- I commend them both to you.
Liz Collin, an investigative journalist wrote a book compiling data, images etc on 5-25-2020 and had chapters "the autopsy report" "the official autopsy report", "This could be called an overdose", the "commissioned" autopsy report. An autopsy "review"-based an a viral incomplete facebook bystander video, "the other autopsy review". GF had heart disease, Covid when he died, many drugs in his system, "wooden chest syndrome". Sooooo long story short "The autopsy" doesn't exist as such. It has been so mangled and wrangled for political agenda. Alpha news MN has done and continues to publish on this case. Lots of truth telling still coming.
I strongly agree with your post. Sending four policemen to prison for not having the best outcome on an action condemns the residents of a lower end community to a dearth of police protection. What sensible policeman will speed to answer a 911 call from the more challenging part of town? And risk ruin? Loss of pension benefits, jail time?
Stanley, they torturred a man to death. That has nothing to do with with public protection and everything to do with saddists being employed in public positions.
I think he means sadists. But I agree , they essentially tortured him to death and ignored his pleas. He was no threat to anyone. 9 minutes I think it was that he was kept in this position unable to breathe .. What else can you call that but torture.
Thank you, Jay. (Pardon the double 'd' but I have never been required to write that word before, therefore it is not part of my vocabulary). Anyone who does not think that was torture, I would suspect of absence of empathy to the degree of psychopathy. Seriously.
Well, the thing is, it's exponentially more than "not having the best outcome". It's the sudden, totally unnecessary, and totally avoidable death of a human being (kind of like the vaccine deaths that almost all of us care about, but actually worse in several ways)
"...the sudden, totally unnecessary, and totally avoidable death..." I know you mean well but I lose no sleep when hard core addicts reach their use by date and I would argue strongly that it is not unnecessary and avoidable. Addiction alcohol, drugs, gambling, indebtedness they are problems to avoid and have nothing to do with JMO. Unfortunately, there are many like George Floyd--dead man walking.
So, you're part of the "absence of empathy to the degree of psychopathy" and proud of it, are you? Floyd was a living man walking who was murdered by police. Justice is not just for saints, it's for all or it's not justice.
ask tensely, "Senior d'Anconia, what do you think is going to happen to the world?" "Just exactly what it deserves," "Oh, how cruel!" "Don't ...
The world is a very troubled place right now and it has no troubles that it hasn't fully earned by its own foolishness. Widespread whining over the problems is just plain pitiful and disgusting. There is a very profound need for adults to GROW UP.
Good post, Clodia. The media, like the NY Times, was already half doxxing the jurors, describing their occupations etc. Plus they had to go through a gauntlet of screaming antifa-blm's just to get to the courthouse every day. It was an evil predetermined Stalinist show trial, a kangaroo court. Another thing, 5 minutes after it happened the antifas were out on the street with giant pre-printed "i can't breathe" banners, and all of the media, all in unison as always, were screaming their version of the incident 24/7 doing their best to incite riots, again as always. Preplanned, orchestrated.
Liz Collin book also describes the DOJ plan to arrest Chauvin in court if by some miracle he was acquited of "murder" for civil rights violations. The lack of confidence of The People With An Agenda was Stunning !
Intent and premeditation are required for 1st degree murder. Chauvin was convicted of 2nd degree unintentional murder, 3rd degree murder, and 2nd degree manslaughter. 2nd degree murder requires intent but not premeditation. In Minnesota, 2nd degree unintentional murder doesn't require intent or premeditation. 3rd degree murder also doesn't require intent or premeditation.
According to Minnesota law, third degree murder requires a depraved mind and the intent to intentionally commit an act eminently dangerous to another’s life. Incompetence isn’t enough. I refuse to believe that Officer Chauvin had a depraved mind. He had been lied to so many times that he had learned to tune complaints out. Tragic. Maybe the guidelines need to be changed. But his trial was a political one.
Of course he expressed depraved indifference. As Dr. Kory noted these cops are trained to not restrict a body as they did. Then when a bystander was calling out to them to pay attention they refused. Having doen anti-racist work for many decades it is clear that many white people refuse to take responsibility for their prejudices and have a whole litany of excuses to avoid that responsibility. Intent does not have to conscious as most people operate with automatic reactions to people and situations without ever thinking about the why's or wherefore's of what they do and say. Unlike you, a man like Floyd would be a preferred neighbor to me. Cops are just too full of their own self-aggrandizement and expectation to get away with whatever they do. This is the basis of the fight against Qualified Immunity which allows the police killing of many people, especially those of color.
"Having doen anti-racist work for many decades it is clear that many white people refuse to take responsibility for their prejudices and have a whole litany of excuses to avoid that responsibility.
Ooooh what an amazingly RACIST thing to write! Maybe you should take some responsibility for your prejudice against White folks, and stop trying to shift responsibility off your own race?
"most people operate with automatic reactions to people and situations without ever thinking about the why's or wherefore's of what they do and say."
So, you mean, like, Whites should not consider crossing the street to avoid getting too close to a group of black "youths"? Should stop listening and paying attention to who is approaching them from BEHIND? How do you NOT see that caution comes from "thinking about why's and wherefores" of SO MANY White people being attacked and beaten or killed -- entirely without any provocation except skin color by young black males trying to win a "knock-out game"? (Hey-wait! Isn't THAT racist? Are you doing any anti-racist work on that problem? Trying to stop those attacks?) What about in NYC, where blacks are slicing with razor blades and knives random Whites and Asians on the subways? How about black youths pushing Whites in front of trains? Are those acts racist or not? Should Whites NOT consider those actions anytime they are near blacks? Are you doing any anti-racist work on those?
Cops In Minneapolis were literally trained to put people they arrested in chokeholds that become fatal if they’re not relaxed.
Chauvin’s ignoring a bystander doesn’t in any way prove that he believed that the bystander might have a point. If a doctor on the scene had made the point that would clearly be intentional. Chauvin may have been very stressed and not too clever. I don’t think your accusations of racism help at all. I know of no credible evidence that African-American officers patrolling African-American neighborhoods make fewer mistakes.
I can agree that the/a bystander carries no authority but if Chauvin was stressed as you describe and part of a trio that were all hyped up together then an outside voice hopefuly would have signaled these cops back to the reality of what they were doing. However despite you discomfort at bringing up racism I feel the need to do so as that has to be part of the reality of what motivated these cops. I have seen it too often that cops operate out of their assumptions about people and often if not typically, see Black people as threatening and less than human and as 'things' that need to be suppressed. While cops will harm/kill white people the conditions are often quite different with white people really threatening. Otherwise it is often seen they cops calm the person and see them as one of them, not other as they do with Black people. In fact I have been treated by cops as I describe simply because i was in the presence of Black people with the cops punishing me for being in alliance with them. They have literally told me that I deserve to be treated badly because of my relation to Black people being abused by the cops. i think there is much you really don't know or understand about the unequal treatment based on race that exists in this country. If otherwise I doubt Flloyd would have been killed .
No, they were not instructed...it was in the manual. The manuals and procedures were changed AFTER Floyds' death....and let's not let the ambulance people off in that case who arrived 10 minutes too late (20 in all) toadminster Narcan.
Yes, it was all a criminal mess and Floyd was victimized by it losing his life. The ambulence drivers can be as obstructionist as the cops on the beat.
Not yet said here is that the history of policing in this country was all about intimidating and controlling Black people after manumission. They developed out of the slave patrols. Policing today is really no different from those early years. White people's property needs protecting and Black people are not real humans and are always suspect just for being alive. That expectation which is racist to the core is what results in these unwarranted police killings.
Tanya, you are what I call racist. And before you round on me, I live in a black region in which English is infrequently spoken, many of the people are related to me, and the culture is definitely non-European. But consistent with your comments, I hear way more racist comments from black people than white. Interestingly, the blacker a person is the less likely I am going to hear them come up with "they pick on us because we are black". The lighter the skin the more 'racist' the world is. This aspect of human behaviour causes much merriment among my grand-daughters as we insult our various skin colours; mine being the darkest. Lighten-up princess.
Dr. Kory noted that he had never done a police report before and wouldn't do another one. He was in fact a medical malpractice go -to expert. Dr. Kory was also someone, who it is safe to assume, only dealt with well behaved patients and not out of control, foaming at the mouth lung distressed, fentanyl administered anally "hooping", thrashing about drug addicts. This restraint, in the MPD manual , was GF's only real hope as they waited for ambulance which had been upgraded to lights and sirens. GF had had an overdose in March and also the deadly (I -can't -breathe -disease in April Covid. A police brutality expert weighed in on this: George Parry: spectator.org + knowledgeisgood + WCCO Rajkumar Interview George Parry.
Per Minnesota Law, 3rd degree doesn't require intent and what constitutes "evincing a depraved mind" isn't well defined. Here's the statutes language:
609.195 MURDER IN THE THIRD DEGREE.
(a) Whoever, without intent to effect the death of any person, causes the death of another by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life, is guilty of murder in the third degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 25 years.
As for Chauvin's state of mind, you're just trying to be an arm chair psychiatrist. You don't know Chauvin state of mind. I don't know if Chauvin's history was part of the record, but if it was that wouldn't have been to his benefit when trying to assess Chauvin's mental state. Why? Prior to this encounter with Floyd, in his career, Chauvin had 18 complaints against him on official record and was involved in three police shootings, one of which was fatal. He received two letters of reprimand for misconduct.
Seems, if anything, given his prior history, Chauvin shouldn't have still been on the police force.
Chauvin had had about one complaint filed against him for every year of service. For a high risk job with many unpleasant interactions with troubled people, that seems pretty reasonable if not actually commendable. Two reprimands in twenty years is not bad at all either. Think.
Who is Derek Michael Chauvin? Army MP veteran. MPD 19 year veteran with 2 medals of honor + 2 medals of commendation, awarded for conspicuous bravery. Field training officer. Exceptional record with fewer than one complaint per year. One reprimand in 2007. Chauvin is stand up Law and Order man. Currently serving time as a political prisoner. Officer Chauvin: chosen and strengthened by God to go thru the fire to expose wicked people and wicked plans. For such a time as this. Much like Pierre Kory, chosen warriors for truth. .different battlefield. See givesendgo/Chauvin to donate and updates .Free Chauvin Now!
You just don’t get it, do you? Minnesota state law sure as hell requires intent for third degree murder, not intent to kill but intent to clearly be so reckless that you know you must be wildly putting someone’s life in danger.
Are you illiterate? I just gave you the exact language for 3rd degree murder which specifically notes "...without intent to effect the death of any person, causes the death of another by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others..." The only real question is what constitutes a "depraved mind". You're obviously playing an arm chair psychiatrist to fit your preferred narrative. Chauvin has a long history of what could constitute depravity.
Additionally, Chauvin was convicted of 2nd degree unintentional murder & 2nd degree manslughter which per Minnesota law also don't require intent. Here's the language for those statutes:
609.19 MURDER IN THE SECOND DEGREE.
Subd. 2.Unintentional murders.
Whoever does either of the following is guilty of unintentional murder in the second degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 40 years:
(1) causes the death of a human being, without intent to effect the death of any person, while committing or attempting to commit a felony offense other than criminal sexual conduct in the first or second degree with force or violence or a drive-by shooting.
[If Chauvin's actions are construed as a felony offense, then he'd be liable].
609.205 MANSLAUGHTER IN THE SECOND DEGREE.
A person who causes the death of another by any of the following means is guilty of manslaughter in the second degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than ten years or to payment of a fine of not more than $20,000, or both:
(1) by the person's culpable negligence whereby the person creates an unreasonable risk, and consciously takes chances of causing death or great bodily harm to another;
You wrote, and I quote, “Per Minnesota Law, 3rd degree doesn't require intent.”
This simply is not true.
Per Minnesota state law, 3rd degree murder DOES REQUIRE INTENT TO BE EXTREMELY RECKLESS AND RISK KILLING A HUMAN. What it doesn’t require is intent to definitely kill.
In other words, you must intend that your actions CAN kill someone and those actions have to be completely disproportionate. For “real” murder, you must intend that your actions WILL (and not could) kill another person.
if you’re not good at logic, at least you’re good at unfounded insults.
I raise another question. This seems to be a common technique. I bet there are numbers which show the % of people who died after the technique has been apply to them. If it were anywhere in the vicinity of unacceptable, police would stop using it. Period!!
I wish someone dig out the numbers.
Next, I do except a premise that a body of a frequent drug user could develop tolerance. Yet, there are levels of drugs that no tolerance would matter. Again, this should not be that difficult to establish and compare to the test results.
I feel deeply sad seeing Dr. Kory involved in this 🙁😢
See givesendgo.com/chauvin to bring justice to this travesty. Kory served as useful idiot to globalists launching the lawlessness steps: from virus to violence. See also Greatest Lie ever sold daily wire.com
George Floyd had already been complaining that he “couldn’t breathe” while he was sitting upright in the police car.
So when he said that he “couldn’t breathe” while the officers were sitting on him, they may not have realized that it was different from when he was in the police car. The problem is that (too) many criminals will fake problems to mess with the police. Perhaps the police should nevertheless be instructed to take each one seriously.
I think there is an argument that Officer Chauvin could have been negligent, but given that he had probably been lied to hundreds and more likely thousands of times for every time there was a real problem, and that George Floyd had a lot of health issues going on on that day that made understanding what exactly was going on much more difficult, I don’t think Officer Chauvin was willfully reckless. If he hadn’t been dealing with a situation where people pretty much customarily feign having problems I do think he would have been willfully reckless.
Did you know that around the world at this specific time, in three other places there images of exactly the same thing? Is this simply a coincidence? https://files.catbox.moe/ojrr80.jpeg
I am going to answer you based upon 3 things: 1. My years of training and experience as a Health Care provider, 2. My years of training and practice of law in 2 different States, and 3. My knowledge of the usual and common practices of training Police Officers before they are given a badge and gun and allowed to practice Law Enforcement.
For my assessment as a Health Care Provider see my above response where I stand side by side with Dr. Kory's assessment of the cause of death of GF.
My Legal analysis of the cause of GF's death and who is directly responsible, legally as well as morally: Law has a standard called the "Reasonable Person Standard" defined as "what a reasonable person, with the same or similar education or training and in the same or similar circumstances would do." Police Officers are trained in CPR and to use it, even after subduing someone who is resisting arrest. This training includes the the FACT that is only takes a lack of sufficient oxygen to the brain, heart and other vital organs for 4 minutes to cause death or irreversable harm. The cell phone videos show the "chockhold was for over 10 minutes, over 2 1/2 times the known, even to Police officers such as Chavin, the time necessary for death or irreversable damage.
Additional Legal analysis includes that "intent" follows the actions of any person. Example: There is an active shooter in your church. a church member has a concealed carry permit and pulls his pistol and shoots at the active shooter. However, he misses the active shooter and hits a church member who dies. His "intent" was to hit the active shooter-no argument there, however, LEGALLY, the intent follows the bullet and this church member can be prosecuted for the murder of another church member, not what the intent was in the mind of the person who pulled the trigger. In other words, each human being is responsible for his actions and the level of responsibility changes as the level of training of the person increases. The level of training for a concealed carry permit elevates the legal definition of "intent" in this case to "murder" not an accidential happening such as inadvertent homicide..
In Chavin's case, he was trained to a higher level than the average person, including training that he knew it would only take 4 minutes of a chokehold like that to cause either death or irreversible damage to GF. His training was that as soon as the imminent threat was over, the chokehold should be released.
The evidence of murder WAS fully recorded, Factually and LEGALLY, by multiple cell phone camera's as well as comments recorded on those cell phone cameras such as "he's not breathing" and "he is dead." Chavin's intent in his mind is not the issue, the issue is the result of what he did based upon his level of training. His level of training elvated his intent, legally, to murder, not as you put it above, "inadvertant homicide."
You have experienced "emotion" as a result of this incident. Chavin was convicted of murder precisely because he violated his level of training and knowledge and that violation was precisely caught on multiple cell phone cameras. You defamation, and yes it was legally defamation, to claim Dr. Kory defamed Chavin by claiming GF was murdered, shows your incomplete understanding of law and the situation that resulted in many deaths and much damage because more than you based what they did and said on emotion instead of facts.
For the record, GF, in my opinion, deserved to be arrested, however, for the record, he did not deserve to be killed on camera, by a policeman who violated the tenents of his training.
In a country of Laws and not of men, each human being deserves to be treated according to the level of training and experience those treating him has and each human being has the right to be treated according to the law. That right for GF was taken away by a policeman who did not follow his level of training and expertise completely.
Chavin will have a lot of time to think back over his actions and his incarceration will send a message to other Law Enforcement Officers to remember to follow, completely, their training, because no one is supposed to be above the law.
Pierre Kory emphatically refutes the claim that the knee on the neck chokehold Floyd was in could have killed him. It simply is not biologically possible. In other words, what you say isn’t just completely wrong, it’s not even possible for it to be true.
Kory reports that the officers sitting on Floyd’s torso caused him to die, which usually doesn’t happen.
Floyd had already told them that “he couldn’t breathe” while he was sitting upright in the squad car; so it wasn’t wildly reckless for them to assume his complaints about being unable to breathe while being sat on were similar in nature to those while not being sat on.
Floyd’s heart, his drug use and his being sat on all contributed to his death that day, his being sat on perhaps the most. He was also a violent criminal whose behavior after his arrest was difficult for the police.
Were they perhaps negligent? I think a case can be made. Was it murder 2 or 3? Of course not.
Perhaps you need to carefully read Dr. Kory's post again. He states clearly that the knee on the neck could collapse GF's trachea because only the front half of the human trachea is cricoid rings. This I know for a fact having an advanced degree in Health Care which included dissecting cadavers and having spent over 32 years in the Operating Room.
Further Dr. Kory stated that having knees in the back by a 2nd policeman, hands handcuffed behind him and legs held by a 3rd policeman there was no way for GF to be able to breathe enough to get air in sufficient to keep him alive.
Had George Floyd told the officer's "I can't breathe" while in the car and before they placed him in the choke hold position, Chavin would have been convicted of First Degree Murder!
When someone can't breathe sitting up, it is a KNOWN death sentence to place them in the choke hold position.
Your first paragraph above belies any reasonable education or understanding of human biology, physiology or even the plain ability to read and understand what Dr. Kory said.
Why don't you volunteer to have your hands cuffed behind you, to be placed face down in a choke hold position with one man's knee on your neck, a second man's knees on your back, a third man holding down your legs for over 10 minutes and see if you can survive without any drugs on board? Then if you survive, write a substack refuting what Dr. Kory clearly states that you have completely misunderstood.
Also, as a retired Lawyer, I find that your lack of knowledge of the Law is showing in your last sentence.
Why don’t you reread what Dr. Kory wrote. I will quote it below. He specifically explained that the knee to the neck could not have suffocated Floyd, because Floyd was still able to speak.
While you are correct that people sitting on a suspect to subdue him can fatally suffocate him, it is rare for this to happen. In other words, contrary to your assertion, there usually is a way for people to breathe in such circumstances. Contrary to what you assert, usually suspects are unscathed by such treatment, but in this case Mr Floyd’s heart and intoxication made this too much.
Lastly, If I was the sort of person who had held a gun to a pregnant woman’s stomach as Floyd did, I would be too ashamed to ever complain about the police being a bit rough during an arrest. Floyd’s death was tragic, but it wasn’t the result of malice from all the evidence I have seen.
Further, it is my opinion that Mr. Floyd did not die of asphyxiation solely due to the pressure on Mr. Floyd’s neck from Officer Chauvin’s knee. Had this been the sole cause, total occlusion of the trachea via external forces would have rendered communication impossible. When Chauvin’s knee was initially placed on Mr. Floyd’s neck, he could phonate (i,.e. make sounds) given that he was recorded pleading with the officers to “get off” of him and then later, just before he became unconscious, he began calling out for his mother. This is impossible with an occluded trachea.
It is clear that you did not carefully read or perhaps you did not understand everything Dr. Kory said in his article.
Have you seen Dr. Kory's today's article: George Floyd's Death - Response to Comments sent out at 12:49 pm today?
If you read and understand it, today's article completely supports what i said, which was in support of what Dr. Kory said yesterday and today's article completely shows you do not understand the complex issues involved that led to DF's death.
You wrote that Floyd’s trachea could have collapsed because of the chokehold. Dr. Kory wrote that they DIDN’T collapse and couldn’t have collapsed because Floyd was still able to “phonate.” What I think about the chokehold to the neck is irrelevant; at the time Minneapolis policemen were taught to put pressure on the neck by the police department.
You wrote that “there was no way for GF to be able to breathe enough to get air in sufficient to keep him alive;” I understand that in strong healthy men what was done to GF would be uncomfortable, but not remotely deadly. Other policemen on this thread have written that it’s very rare for this to result in death. Maybe they know something.
Officer Chauvin had to worry about GF, who was 6 foot four and 250 pounds and badly intoxicated, becoming violent. He didn’t understand that in addition to the crisis with the fentanyl, George Floyd was suffering another crisis, because of what the police were doing to control him until the ambulance arrived. It’s utterly tragic, but I just don’t see any malice.
WAKE UP! I was not the one to describe Chavin's knee on GF's neck as a choke hold! That is how the entire Main Stream Media has described that ever since it happened and that is how the Police Training Manual for that county describes it. Have you been living under a rock since that event hit the news?
GET OFF YOUR HIGH HORSE! A knee abutting a neck doesn't yield a "chokehold." Here's a dictionary definition of "chokehold": "a restraining hold in which one person encircles the neck of another in a viselike grip with the arm, usually approaching from behind" https://www.dictionary.com/browse/chokehold
The Minneapolis cops didn't do anything like that; there was no encircling of Floyd's neck. What Chauvin et al. were doing was applying the Maximal Restraint Technique, which you can read about in section 5-316 here: https://lawofselfdefense.com/statute/minneapolis-pd-use-of-force-policies/ , last updated in April 2018. There's another section (5-311; very brief) on chokeholds in that page, but Chauvin clearly wasn't doing that.
I certainly haven't been living under a rock, but you've apparently been living in an echo chamber of your own devise "since that event hit the news."
Have you read today's article by Dr. Kory? It is titled George Floyd's Death - Response to Comments and was posted at 12:49 pm today.
If you can read and understand it you will learn that what you think was the cause of GF's death, was not the cause of GF's death.
Perhaps, unless you have an equivalent training and experience in medicine as Dr. Kory has, you can learn something by carefully reading his post today.
You might also learn that my training and experience allowed me to understand the cause of GF's death and that iIagreed with Dr.Kory's analysis yesterday before I read today's article by Dr. Kory.
I can see you did not read carefully Dr. Kory's post and that you have no idea that there is more than one way to choke someone to death.
The human trachea is not totally surrounded by cartilage, pressure placed on the back of the neck can push the cervical bones into the fleshy portion of the trachea and close off the windpipe and choke a person.
This FACT has been known for well over a century and one of the techniques taught the special forces of more than just the US as a way to take out an enemy guard without him being able to cry for help or do anything else to warn his fellow soldiers there are enemy soldiers around is to sneak up behind, push his head down onto his chest while simultaneously putting pressure on the back of the neck. FYI, there arm in this technique is not anywhere the front of the victim's neck. Find a special forces soldier sometime and ask them to demonstrate it on you. Then you will understand. Special Forces are taught this technique because all soldiers are trained to turn their head to the side if they feel an arm coming around their neck from the back, this allows them to place their chin in the bend of the enemy's elbow which prevents the enemy from choking them. All soldiers are also taught multiple methods of getting out of this failed attempt to choke them once they have their chin in the bend of their enemy's elbow..
By the way, a choke hold can be any method of closing off the windpipe or reducing the area such that the victim can not get enough air/oxygen to remain alive.
It is apparent you have some knowledge, but not a complete knowledge of all the ways to choke a person. You are probably young and determined to succeed in your endeavors. You sound a lot like me and several of my friends some 40 plus years ago. We thought we knew it all and we found out differently.
Take a deep breath and learn from those who have gone before you.
If you weaken your will via opiates to make a clear choice regarding arrest-resistance , well, you made the decision to take opiates in the first place.
I watched the whole thing. I'd like to know how is it that the Chauvin that was at the scene is not the same as the one I saw in court? How is it that a 6'5" Floyd fit into a 5' coffin?
Chauvin knew exactly what he was doing and continued to do it even while Floyd was not only not resisting arrest, he was dead. It was torture, nothing less. That it is in a policew manual comes as no surprise. The only good side of this story is that Floyd is dead.
It's good that Floyd is dead -- his was NOT a life well lived -- but the injustice to the cops has been monstrous. If an honest history of these times is ever written -- no sure thing! -- the treatment of the four cops will be likened to the Dreyfus affair.
They're the victims. Floyd was a dead man walking.
If it's true that he had been reprimanded multiple times in the past for over-reaching action (and I'm not sure it IS true) , the department itself is derelict in their duty and should be publicly humiliated in the least.
Yeah, that definitely sounds way less draconian than the language I heard. Even if Dr. Kory is right, the jury didn't hear that analysis. So based on what the defense lawyer claimed was necessary to prove, that trial didn't prove it. I think the jury just voted their disgust instead of what they heard in court. A now-deceased friend of mine always said she never wanted to be on trial with a jury of her peers. And this instance is an example of what she feared.
I had forgotten about that part. That alone should be a basis for appeal. How absurd to think a scenario like that is consistent with a fair trial. Our government makes organized crime look like angels.
Rule of Law and Constitution or Rule of Mob is what is at stake. An investigative journalist Maryam Henein has a new book coming soon: "The GF Psy-Op". She says, "The GF story we've been fed is a monumental false narrative that I'm committed to exposing. It was a partly fabricated event, premeditated to take us from virus to violence and ultimately, to divide and destroy America."
Thank you Dr. Kory for this explanation!!! Like you I want the TRUTH to be told in any and all situations whether it be the Covid planned Demic, use of HCQ and Ivermectin as effective medicines in treating disease and autopsies in criminal cases!!! Integrity is fleeting in our society today and we must always be of the highest honor in all we present!!!
Exactly. Tucker is not a doctor but he has an opinion about the Covid shots. I agree with his opinion more than the millions of doctors who are still insisting otherwise.
A jury never heard or saw Dr. Kory's stale report filed with GF attorney's 6-9-2020.
His opinions were never even known publically until now and were NEVER cross examined. GF attorney's bought and paid for this report for the civil case not a trial.
Dr. Kory, thank you for your integrity and your courage. Tucker speaks a lot of truths, but not all that he speaks is true. At the core, he’s a human too with all the faults us humans have. It’s not easy to challenge a voice like Tucker’s. 🫡
George Floyd was yelling "I can't breathe" while sitting in the back of the squad-car. They only pulled him out of the car because he was throwing a fit that he "couldn't breathe". High dose Fentanyl causes severe respiratory depression that can lead to heart-attack. Fentanyl overdose causes Cessation of autonomic breathing process which causes asphyxiation that can cause heart-attack. Nobody had a knee on Floyd's chest as he yelled "I can't breathe" while sitting upright in the back of the squad-car, quite obviously highly "jacked up" on his favorite opiate.
The 27 million was awarded MID criminal trial : in fact they were in the process of choosing the seventh juror when compromised city council agreed to civil settlement in a closed door session. The lack of confidence was stunning that they would get the guilty verdict they needed. They even had Maxine fly through to rabble rouse at a critical spot. Afterall, They had already named a national bill after GF and don't forget the burned out Mpls and Mayor Frey declared Murder! within 48 hours! Destroyed our system of justice right there unchallenged. No longer would a man be innocent until proven guilty. If you have Agenda media, corrupt AG's , doctors who are willing to be well compensated and deliver what their employers need and never look back, etc. etc. etc. no one is safe .
Working in law enforcement is truly a “fly by the seat of your pants” job at times, and nothing is ever set in stone. You must be a troubleshooter and a quick decision maker. You don’t have time to “think it over” and sometimes your body and mind “take over”-tunnel vision. Your body does exactly what it’s suppose to do in an extremely stressful and dangerous situation.
The way they quickly and unceremoniously lunked his lifeless body onto the stretcher without checking his vitals was extremely suspicious, as though they were rapidly completely a staged "mission" and the objective was complete... very suspicious .
So a police officer, who heard the man say he couldn’t breathe in the back of the car, proceeds to then place his knee on the neck of that very man? What did he expect would be the outcome?!
Thanks a lot for the links. He freaked out about being put in a police car and seemed genuinely terrified. Yes he caused himself to end up on the sidewalk. Then the three policemen held him down prone on the sidewalk and he passed out. They should have immediately put him on his side when he became unresponsive, but instead continued to keep him prone because an ambulance was coming. It seems clear to me that he was killed by the force of the police. Maybe the fentanyl had something to do with how fast you passed out, but the fact that he was unresponsive - for whatever reason - and they still kept him prone is the damaging evidence.
Soulbee3, Looking for something else, I came across the answer about side position recovery. Using the restraint they used is right from MPD manual. Side position recovery is mentioned if a hobble had to be used, which it wasn't.
Ah, interesting. To me it''s not the type of restraint that matters, it's the condition of the person being restrained. A hobble restraint can cause someone to pass out, and so can prone positioning with pressure. If he's passed out they are out of danger, I don't see a reason to keep him prone. I do understand the police see people in all types of conditions, and people can be incredibly strong especially under the influence of drugs. The only thing I can think of is if they were concerned he would wake up in a side position and they would have a hard time restraining him. But I don't think this is a valid concern cuz there were three of them.
You should watch Candace’s documentary. He wasn’t on his neck. It wasn’t murder. Bad police work yes. Murder no. Also, Breonna Taylor narrative was also a lie & led to destruction of our city. We knew the real story, because husband is LMPD homicide detective. The entire BLM narrative was a purposeful lie to cause chaos and divide the country. Nothing new to we law enforcement families. We already had lived through “hands up don’t shoot”... another lie. I believe you probably think your analysis is correct. Maybe it is. But I hope you and other colleagues won’t fall for divisive headlines immediately after these cases happen. An officer we know shot and killed an unarmed man and you never heard about it. In March 2020, my husband worked numerous murders and shootings involving teenagers in Louisville, most of them black. None of them made national news. So, respectfully you missed the point.
I am not sure what "point" I missed as I did not address them. I took special care to focus only on the physiologic and medical evidentiary facts of this one event. I did not delve into the wider sociologic aspects you refer to, nor was I asked to. It was a medical opinion, nothing more.
Glad to hear you had no biases in your analysis. In my opinion, the “point” in the re-evaluation of this case was to expose the pressure people felt to come to one conclusion. Chauvin’s inevitable conviction is similar to some of your own experiences in medicine. I find it odd that you don’t see that.
And you Dr. Kory have an experienced opinion, and the jury chose to beleive yours.
Don't even pay attention to Tucker...he's allowed to have his...and quite frankly, he had enough fentanyl in him to slay an elephant...so there is alwasy going to be a diference of opinion. As an experienced Dr., the jury chose yours.
A jury never saw Dr. Kory's stale report from limited info 6-9-2020. It was procured to deal with the civil case. His info was never presented nor subject to cross examination.
Sorry Doc that is wrong. This was negligent homicide without a doubt. The lack of the ability to expand the diaphragm is the issue not the fentanyl. That drug was a contributory factor but absent the chest compression he does not die. This has nothing to do with headlines this is just plain old respiratory physiology. When you cannot breath because of lack of expansion of the diaphragm you will expire. Chauvin was partially to blame but the other 3 on the chest cavity and lower back that did not allow respiration and expansion of the diaphragm. Clear as day- had nothing to do with his neck or fentanyl. That was all wrong.
Breonna Taylor was murdered that whole thing was bad go read it
Negligent homicide was not the charge and is not murder. Breonna Taylor wasn’t murdered. Her boyfriend shot at the police. He nearly killed Mattingly. Chauvin’s life is ruined over bad tactics. Floyd was no hero and never should have been martyred. Watch Candace’s movie if you haven’t. Tells another side.
I watched Candace’s documentary, but it did not address the things that Dr Kory addresses . He is a doctor , a specialist and she is a commentator. I’m surprised you’d take the word of a TV personality over a doctor . I’m sure she believes it , and I was willing to believe her and of course she believes it was a tragic death , but I trust Dr Kory’s judgement .
Dr. Rutherford correctly points out that Dr. Kory’s cause of death analysis may be correct, but is really beside the point. This trial was a travesty of justice, hurting the people of this neighborhood the most. And awarding Mr. Floyd’s family millions of taxpayer dollars is disgusting.
No, your comment is beside the point . The point is the cause of death , what happened after is not the subject of this piece. I agree there are reasons to be very angry at what happened , but how he died should be acknowledged .
It’s common for doctors to disagree on cause of death. I trust Dr. Kory’s expertise but also believe the other medical examiner deserves respect and consideration. Many deaths involving fatal arrhythmia are often labeled “inconclusive.” God knows what killed George Floyd. It’s tragic that so many cities were destroyed over one tragic case, regardless of what happened. The media is complete garbage. I know I don’t want to relive that year. We never saw my husband. But, 2024 will likely bring more race riots, because history repeats and it’s an election year.
Not true the cause of death is exactly the point as is the manner that it was carried out. This was a very public display of callousness never seen before. Indeed the WHOLE WORLD SPOKE OUT ABOUT IT.
This was an absolute travesty and an embarrassment. We were mocked and ridiculed about our screaming democracy all over the world and engaging in selective tyranny here in the US. We cannot be the torch bearer of freedom and liberty and execute people on the street with such indifference. Further Chauvin et al had a history of misconduct- 17 times?? How many people does he get to kill before we put this mad dog down? Your own senator Klobuchar was involved. Amy Klobuchar, who is a U.S. Senator from Minnesota, previously served as the Hennepin County Attorney (District Attorney) in Minnesota from 1999 to 2007. During her tenure as a prosecutor, she was involved in various cases, including those that involved police officers. WHY?? Why did she not put a stop to this?? Klobuchar hurt the people in your community for not putting this mad dog down. Stop counting the Floyd families money because that prompts questions and suspicions about YOU. Get to the real issue. Having a senator that did not do her duty as a DA -17 times- IS DISGUSTING AND THE REAL ISSUE
First off I respect your husband for what he does and thank him for his service to the community doc. Moreover I am pleased that you are so supportive and you should be as his wife and possibly the mother of his children. I admire your passion however we disagree.
I do agree and I do believe that they over charged them however it was homicide. Murder is the unlawful killing of another person with intent and malice aforethought.
Malice can be inferred by the acts and in some jurisdictions it is.
Murder is typically considered one of the most serious crimes in most legal systems and is often categorized into different degrees or classifications, such as first-degree murder and second-degree murder, based on the circumstances and intent involved.
Negligent homicide, also known as involuntary manslaughter in some legal systems, is a criminal offense that involves causing the death of another person through a negligent or reckless act. Negligent homicide does not involve a deliberate or premeditated intent to cause death, but rather it results from the failure to exercise reasonable care or caution, which leads to a fatality.
Negligence: The person accused of negligent homicide must have acted in a negligent manner, meaning they failed to exercise the level of care and caution that a reasonable person would have under similar circumstances.
Here Chauvin and the other officers failed to exercise reasonable care or caution that led to Floyd's death and that is not in dispute. There use of force was also disproportionate as Floyd was not a threat to the community with a fake 20 dollar bill.
Causation: The negligent act must be a direct or proximate cause of the victim's death. This means there must be a clear connection between the defendant's actions and the fatal outcome.
Here had Chauvin et al not been so reckless they would not have caused the death of Floyd. The actual cause of his death was their actions. But for their actions he would be alive. It is therefore foreseeable that their acts were the actual and proximate cause of his death
Lack of intent: Unlike murder or other intentional homicide offenses, there is no intent to kill or harm another person. Negligent homicide involves unintentional conduct.
Here the officers did not intend to kill Floyd. They intended to arrest him but acted recklessly in doing so. No one expects the officers who are not trained physicians to understand the pathophysiology of respiratory failure by the mechanical blockage of the diaphragm. However WE ALL EXPECT them to understand the risks of their actions and to be reasonably compassionate and astute to the cry's for help. Floyd was not faking it. 4 grown men had their weight on him.
No one cast Floyd as a hero, most of us are not hero's outside of our own home and lives.
Here the vitriol from the public, no matter how inappropriate, was the result of the callused and dismissive manner by which they spilled the life of Floyd. No man is without sin- NO MAN. Floyd's history should not have disqualified him from receiving what the constitution promised " the due process of law and the presumption of innocence". Floyd was not afforded that.
Breonna Taylor was murdered
The police officers involved in the case were executing a "no-knock" search warrant at Breonna Taylor's apartment in a drug investigation. This type of warrant allows law enforcement to enter a residence without announcing their presence, and they can break down the door if necessary. However, they are required to have a legitimate reason for requesting such a warrant. The warrant was obtained under false pretenses.
They lied to a judge. Indeed the person responsible for obtaining the search warrant for Breonna Taylor's apartment was a detective named Joshua Jaynes. Detective Jaynes was the one who provided information to the judge to secure the no-knock search warrant, and it was based on this information that the warrant was issued. In the warrant application, Jaynes stated that he had verified through a U.S. Postal Inspector that suspicious packages had been delivered to Taylor's apartment for a person involved in a drug investigation.
The U.S. Postal Inspector had, in fact, stated that no packages related to the investigation were delivered to Taylor's apartment. This misinformation about the packages was a key element in obtaining the no-knock warrant. THUS THE WARRANT WAS PROCURED BY FRAUD.
The post office is a federal office and using them to commit a crime is a federal crime. The Justice Department charged Kelly Goodlett with helping to falsify the affidavit for the search warrant that authorized the “no-knock” entry into Taylor’s apartment in March 2020. She plead guilty and will testify against the others.
As a result of the fake warrant the officers burst into the home. Taylor and her boyfriend, Kenneth Walker, were inside at the time. Walker, believing the intruders were intruders, fired a shot, which struck an officer in the leg. The officers returned fire, shooting multiple rounds. Breonna Taylor was hit by several bullets and tragically died in her own home.
“Goodlett acknowledged that she helped another LMPD detective and their supervisor obtain a warrant to search Taylor’s home, despite knowing that the officers lacked probable cause to do so,” the federal prosecutors said in a statement on Aug. 23
Kyle Meany and Joshua Jaynes—are accused of lying to get the search warrant for Taylor’s home. Meany and Jaynes are also charged with violating Taylor’s civil rights, which carries a maximum of up to life in prison if they are convicted.
Breonna Taylor had nothing to do with drugs and you do not get to just make up a lie to break in someone's home. That is an illegal search and seizure.
Finally I respect and admire the police and real law enforcement. We have all seen that the DOJ and FBI and state and local police departments and detectives can make legitimate mistakes and that they can also conspire and break the law as if they are above the law using the color of their authority.
For example look what happened to Donald Trump before the 2016 election and all through his presidency and after and even now. This is a disgrace. NO 2 WAYS ABOUT IT. They are treating Trump very badly and it is obvious to everyone. Many blacks relate to this and have declared he is being treated just like a brother. THAT IS WRONG FOR ANYONE.
We need responsible policing and they need the respect of the community.
Respectfully Doctor. That is complete and utter nonsense.
What is it that you do not get about the warrant being procured by fraud. They lied to a judge and they referenced the postal service making it a federal crime. This is a fraud on the court utilizing the US Postal Service. The police officer admitted that she lied and conspired with others. What "lies" are you suggesting that I purchased? She confessed!!!
Moreover you are a physician and are expected to show good judgment. These facts are undisputed at this time.
This " NO KNOCK' warrant being obtained in bad faith means that they had NO PROBABLE CAUSE to get a warrant or to even come to the house. When there is no probable cause to enter you are engaging in what is known as an Illegal search and seizure and a BRAZEN violation of the 4th amendment. THEY HAD NO LEGAL STANDING OR JURISDICTION TO BE THERE. This is a constitutionally prohibited act SO WHY ARE THEY THERE? I am sure you do not want to hear this but it is most likely predicated on RACISM. Indeed her life and her rights do not matter because she is black and that is always the way it has been done.
They judged her and deprecated her and her rights as a person and a human being and then made up lies about her and then broke into her house. She was killed in a depraved manner because it was the police who killed her during a "police investigation" and she was innocent and they knew it, that is why they lied about the warrant. They had nothing to base it on.
Breonna Taylor had a right to bear arms in her home under the SECOND AMENDMENT AND to defend herself WITH DEADLY FORCE against an illegal attempt to subdue her under false pretenses and fraudulent warrant procured by fraud ARE FALSE PRETENSES.
Dr. Rutherford, Breonna Taylor was murdered in her home during her sleeping hours. This was a SHAMEFUL AND ILICIT ACT and you should NOT defend it because it prompts questions and suspicions about YOU.
This will not be manslaughter either because of the numerous constitutional violations noted herein. They really should ask for first degree with special circumstances because this MURDER was fomented under the color of their authority as officers of the court with federal violations
Thank you Dr Kory. That makes complete sense. I'm hoping Tucker Carlson has the integrity to change is position if he's presented & persuaded with your explanation/view point.
Dr. Kory excellent analysis. You should have called me and I would have told you that in about 5 minutes.
As a spine surgeon I know that Floyd did not die of the knee on the neck and thus Chauvin is actually innocent. This is unpopular. As a matter of fact he is excluded. The real reason that Floyd died was because he could not expand his diaphragm. Yes he was suffocated.
Tucker and 90% of the physicians do not know that even though Floyd was speaking. That meant he could move air in and out of the trachea. Soft tissue swelling would have to be prolonged in the cervical spine and enough to cause closure. That typically happens when there is an anaphylactic reaction or a drug reaction from a medication like the BMP infuse. Notorious for causing death by soft tissue swelling.
The reason why I was clued in actually had nothing to do with my medical training. It was due to my sports background. In wrestling we use a maneuver called a "tight waist" where you wrap your arm around the opponent's waist and pull tight. This decreases the ability for the opponent to expand his diaphragm. A much more dramatic example is that of a person who gets caught in a scissors maneuver where the legs are scissored closed around the stomach or just below the chest under the xyphoid process. This renders the opponent completely helpless in seconds because it is not dead weight but an active compression forcing the diaphragm up allowing no respiration and causing extreme pain.
I am surprised that more people did not figure it out actually. There is a tragic story of a medical student who got stuck in a cave in Utah and he died the exact same way and they left his body there. I often think of him. As his chest was compressed and he expired as a result of prolonged inability to respirate.
By the way this works on animals as well. I have cats and I love my cats. All are strays and indoor outdoor and just grew up to be huge some are about 20 lbs. but at times cats act like cats and scratch and bite etc. which I am good with. When that get's out of hand I grab a handful of their tummy's skin and hair underneath and and tightly squeezing it you can hear the air exhale and the fracas is over. No pain just completely incapacitated by a lack of oxygen and then let go.
Same with large dogs. The tight waist is such a useful management tool because it causes no permanent injury once you let off of it and it requires only a few seconds to get the point across.
I often wonder if I could accomplish it with a big cat, a tad bit more dangerous because they weigh 600 pounds and can kill you with one bite to your neck. However it is still a matter of position and leverage and strength of course.
Unless Tucker changes his prior ways, I doubt he'll retract or respond in any way. I contacted his producer after he said the Texas Army National Guard had not been deployed to the border when they had been there for months. My son is in the Texas Army National Guard and has been there a year and a half. I applaud that he produces information that others don't, but he seems to choose the pragmatic, teleological route at times in order to prove a point unfortunately.
I'm now certain that doing the right thing directly into the blast of the winter storm of evil is our only chance.
That's exactly what I mean. I don't believe it's right to think tactically. I think it's right to think and do what is right to the best of your ability. Pragmatism is a hamster wheel that almost never brings about good fruit (i.e. a broken clock is only right twice a day). Choosing to do the right thing...and in Pierre's case against a juggernaut to boot...takes courage because, although you are sure the fruit it bears will be good, you don't know what it may mean for you in the process (e.g. Peter hung upside down).
What you say is right, in times of peace. But Americans do not seem to grasp we are in the middle of WWIII, even though the US created this situation. Thus, priorities change. Analogy... I am opposed to violence, but if a person is about to shoot me, I will shoot him first. I intuit that you will nobly refuse to shoot and we will scrawl that on your tombstone. If we have time. But probably not.
With all due respect and as a BC Pulm/CCM myself who has seen many drug overdose patients, especially narcotics, I can attest from experience, that this presentation and scenario is certainly consistent with narcotic induced respiratory failure, hypoxia and death. I have personally seen many drug abusers who initially have almost superhuman strength and combativeness, perhaps related to being stimulated by catecholamine surge during a period where they are being restrained under very stressful conditions. If they have taken oral forms of narcotics, especially sustained release formulations, there will be a gradual increase in the absorption of the drug which could certainly reach a threshold which overcomes the catecholamine release. While again, I respect Dr. PK, all need to be aware that paid "expert witnesses" are not completely unbiased individuals and that his and my opinion are just that, opinions. The truth is therefore difficult to ascertain definitively. In the end, no one is deserving of an apology here, simply for coming up with a different conclusion after analyzing the evidence.
I certainly agree with your characterization of overdoses. But your argument is founded on exactly what I addressed - the idea that his "overdose" was perfectly timed with the application of multiple injurious and restrictive forces to his thorax and neck. Statistically improbable if not impossible. I am shocked to learn about how little people read my logic and analysis, I presented numerous data showing that such a conclusion is literally impossible to reach given the complete lack of clinical, observational evidence that he was SEVERLY opiate intoxicated at any point of his arrest ordeal. Your response proves that it is too emotional of a topic for people to be objective.
I'm a little surprised at your response. The statement " statistically improbable if not impossible" is a pretty strong statement, but again is pure conjecture and opinion on a subjective review of the facts. The emotional aspect of this seems to be high here, but not from me. I have no dog in this fight as opposed to someone who was hired to have an opinion here. Stay well, PK.
I didnt see the drugs in his mouth til he was already in the police car so he wouldnt necessarily have to be high in all of the videos. How much time did he spend in the car total before he was taken out and then spent another 8 minutes on the ground before he passed? Seems like more than enough time to overdose on lethal amounts of anything. Im not convinced either way yet.
If you consider the fact that he said "I can't breathe" multiple times, while upright and not being restrained, before being placed on the ground, then the calculus for "statistically improbable" seems to change a bit.
“the idea that his "overdose" was perfectly timed with the application of multiple injurious and restrictive forces to his thorax and neck. Statistically improbable if not impossible”
Doesn’t this improbability only hold if we assume the timing of his criminal drug use and the timing of his interaction with law enforcement are not correlated?
In other words, he only was in that position at that time because he was using narcotics at that time, right? That’s why the cops were involved to begin with.
With all due respect Fentanyl hardly comes in oral form. Fentanyl usually is snorted, smoked or injected in which case it is rapidly absorbed which is what a longtime opiate addict like mr. Floyd was. So your hypothesis is no good with slow release i guarantee you. Heavy addicts do not care about slow release. Furthermore all of you doctors completely overlook the methaamphetamine which was in floyds blood. He apatently took an 8-ball which is a combination of fentanyl and speed. The speed helps the addict to stay alert even on very high doses of fentanyl. Imo hos death was from his heart and you all obsess nearly idiotically on respiratory failure. I see that all your degrees have goven you blindness to the real world and hampers you to see the truth despite looking for it so closely. He couldnt breath due to heartfailure.
Absolutely not! You're wrong. Unless you are one of the world's leading pulmonary specialists and have spent many years practicing your technical skill on actual patients, there is nothing similar between yours and Dr. Kory's results.
You're confused about the difference between fact and opinion.
A FACT is a statement that is true or real and is supported by evidence, and if you took the time to read his very detailed medical actual evidence you would see that.
An OPINION is a person's belief or thought about something that may or may not be based on facts.
A fact is a piece of information that has objective reality, while an opinion is a judgment or appraisal that is formed in the mind and is subjective.
He was paid for his time to evaluate and study the medical evidence, not to merely "give an opinion.".
Those people with "superhuman strength" are on Phencyclidine, commonly known as PCP, is the drug name for the hallucinogenic substance also referred to by street names such as "angel dust," "wet," or "sherm." PCP is NOT AN OPIATE. PCP is a dissociative anesthetic that was originally developed for medical and veterinary use but is now classified as an illegal and controlled substance due to its hallucinogenic and unpredictable effects on users. PCP does not actually provide "superhuman strength." Instead, it can lead to a loss of pain perception, a feeling of invulnerability, and reduced inhibitions, which can result in individuals engaging in reckless and sometimes violent behavior.
One of its known effects is to depress the central nervous system, which can include suppressing respiratory function. When taken in high doses or in situations of overdose, PCP can lead to significant and potentially life-threatening respiratory depression. Naloxone (Narcan) is not effective in reversing the effects of PCP (phencyclidine) or other non-opioid substances.
The oral absorption of fentanyl is generally considered to be relatively poor, which is why oral fentanyl formulations are not commonly used for pain management. When fentanyl is taken orally, it undergoes significant first-pass metabolism in the liver, which can reduce its effectiveness and delay its onset of action. Fentanyl is sometimes used in combination with other substances, such as alcohol or other drugs, which can increase the risk of overdose.
Some people obtain fentanyl from illegal sources, and it may be in the form of counterfeit pills or powder. These illicit forms of the drug can be extremely potent and unpredictable, increasing the risk of overdose. Floyd may have had access to such drugs however I do not believe that this is the cause of death.
The problem here as I see it is that Floyd was unable to respirate. The force on his abdominal thoracic cavity from the weight of 4 men is able to impede normal diaphragmatic cycling and breathing. That would be at least 280Kg ( 4 x70kg) or about 618lb. That is a reasonable assumption.
Brave, the statement "those people...are on Phencyclidine" is not always true. This is a misleading statement that takes away from the truth. While PCP can have the effects mentioned, I have managed many extremely physically aggressive men and women who required 4-5 security guards while having a negative drug screen for PCP.
Unfortunately, there are many assumptions in your reply, many of which are inaccurate, therefore undermining the rest of your argument. If your background is as described, I doubt your experience in this area surpasses mine, but we'll never know since this is a message board that solves nothing other than to promote discord among presumably knowledgeable people. My entire point was not to denigrate PK however it appears to have been interpreted that way. I do abhor the ad hominem attacks that unfortunately permeate civil discourse today which results in the failure to address the true cause and solution to problems. Best wishes.
FT your statements were taken and answered in the context in which they were given. " I have personally seen many drug abusers who initially have almost superhuman strength and combativeness, perhaps related to being stimulated by catecholamine surge during a period where they are being restrained under very stressful conditions."
The drug most notorious for the appearance of superhuman strength is by far PCP.
The only comments that have been misleading are YOUR COMMENTS. Alternatively your comments could reflect ignorance and or bias. You have purposely or ignorantly mixed the classes of drugs.
You have alleged in your vast experience that you have seen patients presumably on fentanyl as this is the basis of the discussion who have had superhuman strength. The only drug Alternatively you believe that patients were on some elicit drug can have superhuman strength as the result of catecholamine release.
The presumption is that Floyd was on Fentanyl a drug that caused respiratory depression and death. That is the focus of this adversarial discussion. We will discuss the presence of methamphetamines' as well.
Fentanyl is a powerful synthetic opioid, not a natural opiate. While both natural opiates and synthetic opioids act on the same receptors in the brain and produce similar effects, they differ in their origin and chemical structure. Fentanyl, on the other hand, is entirely synthetic and is not derived from opium or the poppy plant. Fentanyl does not directly cause a significant increase in catecholamines, such as dopamine and norepinephrine, like some stimulant drugs (e.g., cocaine or amphetamines) do. It's a potent depressant and can slow down respiration. Fentanyl can cause drowsiness and sedation, which is the opposite of the alertness and increased energy associated with stimulants. You have noted that Floyd was combative and thus that combative nature was not from fentanyl. Fentanyl itself does not stimulate the release of catecholamines. In contrast to stimulants, opioids like fentanyl typically have depressant effects on the central nervous system.
Catecholamines can lead to the " perception" of increase strength. Stimulant drugs like cocaine, amphetamines, and other substances that increase the release and availability of catecholamines, particularly dopamine and norepinephrine, can lead to perceived increased strength and enhanced physical performance. This perceived increase in strength is not the result of actual physical changes in muscle strength or capability. Instead, it's primarily due to the stimulant effects on the central nervous system and the brain.
Drugs that cause the release of catecholamines, such as stimulants like cocaine and amphetamines, typically do not cause respiratory depression. In fact, these drugs often have the opposite effect, leading to increased respiration (breathing rate).
Stimulants like cocaine work by increasing the activity of the central nervous system, leading to effects such as increased alertness, energy, and euphoria. Cocaine is not an opiate; it is a different class of drugs. Cocaine was not found in Floyd.
That leaves amphetamines. Methamphetamines were found in Floyd. A central nervous system stimulant that can increase heart rate and blood pressure. The toxicology report from George Floyd's autopsy, conducted by the Hennepin County Medical Examiner's Office, did detect the presence of methamphetamine in his system, but the report did not specify the exact quantity or concentration of methamphetamine found. The toxicology report listed the presence of methamphetamine but did not provide specific details about the quantity or dosage.
The level of a toxin or a substance can be quantified in a toxicology report. Toxicology is the scientific study of the adverse effects of chemicals, including drugs and other substances, on living organisms. When toxicologists analyze biological samples, such as blood or urine, they often use various methods to quantify the concentration of specific substances present in the sample.
Gas Chromatography-Mass Spectrometry (GC-MS): This is a widely used technique for the separation, identification, and quantification of chemicals in a sample. It can provide precise measurements of the concentration of specific substances. Liquid Chromatography-Mass Spectrometry (LC-MS): Similar to GC-MS but used for substances that are not volatile or do not readily vaporize. It is often used to analyze drugs and their metabolites.
Immunoassays: These are tests that use antibodies to detect and quantify specific substances, such as drugs, in a sample. They are commonly used in clinical and forensic toxicology.
Enzyme-Linked Immunosorbent Assay (ELISA): A type of immunoassay used for quantifying the concentration of certain substances, such as drugs or hormones.
The official autopsy report listed the cause of death as "cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression."
Quantifying the levels of toxins or substances in a toxicology report is important for understanding their potential role in a person's health or in an investigation, such as a criminal case. These quantitative measurements help determine the concentration of a substance in the body, which can be crucial for assessing its potential effects and determining the cause of certain symptoms or outcomes.
Why was this not done? Let me tell you why. They did not want to disclose the amount because it was low.
The official autopsy report listed the cause of death as "cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression." The manner of death was classified as a homicide.
Drugs were not the cause of his death. There was no PCP. Fentanyl causes a decrease in catecholamines. The amount of methamphetamines was not quantified and is unlikely to have contributed to the perception of " superhuman strength".
His conduct was most likely related to the anxiety he felt concerning returning to jail. Anxiety can cause paranoia and a release of catecholamines.
Your discussion, for whatever reason, was not only incomplete but did not clarify which drugs you were implicating and those drugs were not in his system and therefore your offering was misleading. The level of Methamphetamine was not quantified and that goes against respiratory depression.
I have been a surgeon since 1985 and have likely seen far more drug users in LA and Detroit in the ER than you. In my view the cause of death was suffocation by mechanical compression of the thoracoabdominal cavity prohibiting the cycling of the diaphragm in normal respiration secondary to pressure from the weight of 4 average size 70kg men equaling over 280kg or over 600 lbs.
This column only seems to address events once Floyd was on the ground. However, I watched the police bodycam showing Floyd in the police car. He was sitting upright and he was already saying "I can't breathe." He was saying this long before he was on the ground, knee or no. Why did he say this in the police car? I presume he was drowning in his own bodily fluid rushing into his lungs from an overdose. With 3 times the lethal level of fentanyl in his blood, that seems plausible. The article above appears to imply that his breathing was unobstructed until he was put on the ground, but that just isn't so.
Until I read your post, I had accepted the fentanyl overdose explanation that had been offered in a number of places (the circumstances surrounding the crime, the protests, and the presence of Antifa and BLM primed me to think the worse of how the George Floyd death was handled). Your calm and systematic explanation of the evidence and analysis that led to your opinion was a welcome dose of rationality and integrity during a time when both seem to be in short supply.
Just to think about, your response is typical of people not cognizant of their own prejudices. Many people, those of color and white people who are aware of how prejudice works did not accept the Carlson statement knowing it was not based on fact but prejudice. Such is the difference of real experience as opposed to attitudes taught without fact.
I was not aware that Tucker Carlson weighed in on this subject. Multiple sources had posited the fentanyl overdose angle long before the verdict was reached. I reacted to Dr. Kory because I was aware of his advocacy during the Covid crisis and the cancelling and censorship he experienced. Nonetheless, I am unclear about the nature of unconscious prejudice you are referring to regarding my response. Could you elaborate?
Let me help. "tanya marquette" thinks all white people are racist. There are many like her, which is why the term "racist" now falls flat on its face, as it should.
I'm sure "tanya marquette" will be back around shortly to explain how Black men can also be white racists. I believe Larry Elder was accused of that not long ago, lol.
Kory's written report was filed 6-9-2020, the same day GF was buried in TX. The only info Kory had was what was given to him by GF atty's. At that time even the officers body cams were being withheld, coroner was "pressured". Alpha News in MN does updates on this and in Nov. is releasing a documentary. Kory's report was then held until the 7th juror was being selected in the criminal trial. Kory never did testify in terms of being on site or cross examined, his stale limited report was just used to extort $$$$ from extremely compromised Mpls city council.
I appreciate the additional context, but I don't know if it necessarily follows that there was anything slanted or inaccurate about Dr. Kory's analysis. I would be interested in any information that was obtained after Dr. Kory filed his report that could have impacted his findings. Regardless of what Dr. Kory's findings were, the way this case was covered in the media, and how groups like BLM and Antifa made their presence felt during the trial, I still feel this tragedy was driven by desires to push political agendas rather than a search for the truth.
" I did not observe shallow or slowed breathing until he was put into prone restraint (i.e. face and chest down on a hard surface)"
So, why was he complaining about inability to breath in the police car several times, once when just sitting, other times when half sitting half laying, probably uncomfortable, not not quite like being held to the ground.
E.g. around 18:30, then 19:20... where he was not on his chest bur rather sitting angled 45° or so.
Anxiety is a common cause of difficulty breathing. Floyd became anxious at the mere thought of going back to jail. The first step in that is getting into a police cruiser. He had a genuine panic attack and this is not uncommon. People with claustrophobia, which is a form of anxiety have difficulty breathing and this is why some people cannot have an MRI of the spine.
Wow, Igor!! Thanks my friend, please know how much I appreciate, respect, and admire your work in Covid, it has been unparalleled and so I take your comment as high praise.
Two problems. First you were hired by the party that "wanted" to prove it was murder. Second, I find much of your rambling analysis "subjective" and therefore an opinion. Perhaps the officer contributed to Floyd's death with his actions. To what extent is unknowable. But, to ignore toxicology or even include it in your report, forces your predetermined conclusion. To the extreme, you moved the "I can't breathe" from the police car to the street - a lie. You gave the Jury what they wanted to hear and you were compensated for that. People lie for a price. You should be ashamed, not proud of your work.
When I taught medicine, one of the oldest adages I passed on to students in how to apply the results of an abnormal chest film or lab test to an individuals situation is "Look at the patient, not the picture" (meaning that often abnormal test or imaging results prove insignificant or only marginally significant in your assessment if the patient is feeling well or their physiologic function does not match what the test result suggests). The clinical condition of the patient is paramount over test results. Again, he exhibited no signs of SEVERE opiate intoxication and to argue that he did is unsupported by all the videotaped evidence and knowledge of how opiates cause death. See my below comment on the insignificance of him saying "I can't breathe" earlier in the episode, but I suspect it won't matter, you have reached your own conclusion, as we all must.
While I would never challenge your medical determinations, as I am not in that profession, I did watch the police bodycam video from the time George Floyd was located inside a small car with all the doors and windows shut (which contradicts his claim of claustrophobia). After being asked to get out of the car, he was handcuffed. The police then walked him down a sidewalk to the police car. All the while George Floyd was being escorted to the police car, he was claiming he could not breathe. There was no restraint on him other than hands cuffed behind his back and the walking pace was normal, not rushed. Murder One was a purely panicked conviction status, due to the threat of rioting outside the courthouse. I hope an appeal is successful. While George Floyd did not deserve to die, neither did Officer Chauvin deserve a Murder One life sentence.
The words Floyd said earlier is irrelevant to my argument. It is simply the fact that during prone restraint he was able to voice words which indicated not only he was awake and talking but that air was passing through his trachea and vocal cords. He could have said "I am hungry" and my conclusion would have been the same. Him saying "I can't breathe" earlier in the arrest is also irrelevant but if I had to guess, I would say it was from his fear of being locked up/claustropobhia/panic - again, people really high on dope do not complain of anything, they are typically "feeling fine".. that is why they use dope..
I saw with my own eyes that the Minneapolis PD police officers’ manual recommended such chokeholds to subdue violent people resisting arrest. A murder conviction not only requires a dead person but also the intent to kill someone. Legally speaking, you can commit a homicide by accident but not murder. Nobody ever showed a shred of evidence that officer Chauvin intended to kill George Floyd in front of cell phone cameras. That would be incredibly stupid. To suggest that he was guilty of murder is in my opinion defamatory. Inadvertent homicide? Perhaps. Intentional murder? Ridiculous, in my opinion. Officer chauvin in my opinion is a political prisoner, the victim of a jury afraid that the media would release their home addresses if they didn’t cooperate with the regime change operation that was the George Floyd circus.
I struggled with this last year when I found out Pierre had done this expert witness review and wrote him because I was (and am) SO angry about yet another multimillion dollar 'handout' from the the tax payer to try to avoid the rioting and destruction that so often follows such deaths. Surely, in a more normal society, such a death would have been called unintentional killing, and not EVER "murder" which requires intentional planning and follow-through.
Pierre was kind (or exasperated) enough to answer me and provide a link to his report. Every fiber in my body resists the truth, but since I trust Pierre, I unhappily but willing accept his determination. It was a *political* decision to provide millions to various family members of a man killed through happenstance by police action. That did not stop rioting and looting and burning across the planet, and a number of killings of people in NO WAY involved! But that's not Pierre's fault nor anything of his doing.
I was beyond offended to see an interview with the mother of one of Floyd's children (a teen boy) when she said she had to TELL the boy that was his father -- cause the boy did not know him. I was and am horrified at the sanctification of a drug-using criminal merely for the fact that he died (unintentionally!) during a counterfeiting arrest. Instead of his death being the motivation for mothers of black children to RAISE THEM to be productive members of the various nations they are living in, it was and is used as an excuse for even MORE uncivil and violent acts, more looting followed by blaming stores for leaving black areas instead of blaming black looters for driving them out of business.
But these are civilization ills, and will not be healed or repaired by resisting the truth of an absolute expert in his field because his expert opinion in unpalatable.
Floyd's death may have been unintentional, but it was also easily preventable, as Dr. Kory's analysis makes clear. One doesn't have to "sanctify a drug-using criminal" to want the people involved to be held accountable.
"Accountable"? I absolutely agree! The causing of unintentional death is STILL a crime. But accountable on its ACTUAL legal face; not on exaggerated and politically/racially motivated, not factually accurate, charges, meant to make hay for the DA and judge! Accountable for their ACTUAL "crime"; NOT way over-charged and over sentenced for political reasons, to try to prevent riots and burnings that happened anyway!
"Easily preventable"? Not sure I agree with that.
Ever heard of the tale of the Boy Who Cried Wolf? Granted, it may (or may NOT) have been this particular 'boy' who cried 'wolf' multiple times. (And oh fer cryin' out loud -- that is a REFERENCE TO THE CHILDREN'S TALE. If any of you cannot see a differentiation between a racial slur I would not use -- and a reference to a children's tale -- then you're not old enough to be reading on the computer!)
The "townspeople" (in this analogy, those would be the cops) had heard multiple cries of "wolf" ("I can't breath"); cries that nearly always turn out to be false and merely an attempt at tricking the cops. So, like the townspeople, when the latest 'cry of wolf' is heard, they are NOT going to believe it! NOT because they want o harm the person resisting arrest but because that's what many, many blacks being arrested claim.
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me many many times? I'm not likely to believe the latest cry of 'wolf' even when there actually IS a wolf! Expecting cops to be perfect when facing the "usual cries" is perhaps more than reasonable.
And of course, there's always the entirely reasonable: "if you DON'T want to get arrested for trying to pass counterfeit money -- DON'T TRY TO PASS COUNTERFEIT MONEY!"
I've said similar a million times. It will never end well while we expect police officers to remain angels while dealing all day, every day with the devils of society ... especially when nothing better is EVER expected of the devils. You're just making too much damned sense around here, Avalanche.
Thanks! I try. I'm ALWAYS angry at the destruction of my country by people who shouldn't be here or shouldn't be ALLOWED to run rampant like animals! I try to make sense for the "nice folks" who've bought the propaganda. (hey! JUST. LIKE. COVID.!!)
Alas, the ONLY way I see this destruction working out starts with blood and fire, and ends with a new country -- or a bunch of new nation-states!!
It would have been interesting to see the outcome if George Floyd ran amuck in Singapore!! I'm sure we all know what the outcome would have been. Floyd was a guy who held a gun up to a pregnant woman, As far as I'm concerned, Derek Chauvin saved the state of Minnesota a lot of money! It is an atrocity that he is in jail for doing his job. What have we learned about the Summer of 2020 when buildings were being burned down, and innocent people were murdered in the name of what FAKE social justice? That is bullshit!! It's a lie, and if upstanding Americans tolerate another Summer of 2020, we deserve it!! At 60 years old I refuse to cower to these cowards! ANTIFA and BLM my ASS!!
Avalanche... predictive words surely, and I would not have even commented if the cop had just shot Floyd. A neat double tap in the head and humanity is protected from yet another dangerous creep. But this cop was just as bad as Floyd. So a double tap for him too.
@JanC1955 - Your observation is SO correct! As the wife of a 32 yr retired (thank God!) LEO, the average person has ZERO idea what a police officer is faced with on the daily. And there's not much that compares to wondering if your spouse and father of your children will literally come home from work each night. My husband went through TWO separate "attempted murder of a peace officer" trials during his career, that both (luckily) ended in convictions of the perpetrator(s). One was a 85 year old black man that almost shot him in the head as he was bent over, changing the old man's flat tire on the side of the road!!
Dear ConcernedGrammy, Thank your husband for me and many others who have nothing but respect and gratitude for LEO's who serve our communities. The vilest criminal is afforded thorough discovery and due process and is consider innocent until proven guilty. The Woke police model is flipped to: every LEO is presumed guilty. It is as much by design as the Plandemic to destroy US. Interesting statistic: One of every 220 citizens will be accused of a violent crime that # is one out of every 352 Law enforcement officers. LEO's are some of our Best People.
And you might want to avoid aiming a loaded gun at a pregnant woman and robbing her blind and threatening to rape her, so you can pay for your next fix.
https://www.thefallofminneapolis.com/
I think maybe we're beginning to understand what they mean when they say, "build back better." They mean they want to destroy everything first.
I don't think Dr. Kory had the full picture of who Floyd was and what happened. The linked documentary might help.
fallofMinneapolis.com update 12-7-23: 5 million views. Thank you Jim, I believe you posted about it early on and even gave towards the project. My husband was at a local meeting (Champlin MN) last nite: 12-6 Liz Collin and Police federation-President-at-the-time (still husband) Bob Kroll.
They were open to questions: "What was unusual about this case?" Kroll's answer: "Everything." FBI was called within hours." Police cameras were not released for two and a half months. Police Chief never gave the usual we're still investigating speech.
No, I didn't give towards the project. I only heard about it from Celia Farber's substack.
What about the original autopsy done ..
The following week in Mpls a man died of a fentanyl overdose in the back of a police car. No one but his family will ever know or say his name. The officers were actually overaccommadating to Mr. Floyd. See Who killed GF? centaurfilmworks.com. Also: Liz Collins book: They're Lying: Media, Left and death of GF. thelieexposed. Alpha news MN has ongoing coverage of things as they break on this case. Also givesendgo.com/Chauvin to help free an innocent man and breaking news.
Yes it was preventable in many ways. Primarily, he shouldn’t have resisted arrest. Secondly, officers should have handled things differently. I’m sure Chauvin ponders this every day in solitary confinement.
Is it actually the case that Chauvin is in solitary? He's now in a medium-security federal prison in Tucson -- probably safer for him than the state pen, so he wouldn't need to be in solitary for that reason.
Liz Collin -- formerly of WCCO-TV in Minneapolis, now with Alpha News -- has a documentary due out in mid-November on the case: https://www.thefallofminneapolis.com/ It's going to be freely available online, supported by (tax-deductible) crowd-funding. (I donated $250.)
In the video at that link, you can see her, briefly, talking on the phone with Chauvin in the slammer.
thefallofmpls.com documentary update: 12-7-23 : 5 million views, Liz and her husband Bob Kroll at local (mpls suburb mtg. last night 12-6-23). Thank you Paul137 for your early support. Kroll (police union president at the time) was there and was asked what was unusual about this case: Answer: "Everything." FBI was called within a few hours. Film released 11-16-23 . And then 11-24-23 Chauvin is stabbed 22 times by a FBI informant-mexican-mafia- inmate. Truth is Unstoppable and Goodness wins.
Thank you so much for spreading the truth. There is also givesendgo.com/Chauvin and a full expose film of all the withheld video: Who killed GF? centaurfilmworks.com. Thanks again for the donation, too.
Like you, I have such deep admiration and respect for Dr. Kory, plus a gut instinct he's the real deal, that while I believe Chauvin didn't stand a chance at trial and that the sainted Floyd family was sure to cash in big-time, Dr. K's expert analysis did convince me that Floyd would still be enjoying his life of crime had the officers handled him differently.
When you are committing crimes and doing drugs and taking advantage of people you will be put in harms way. There is a fine line in doing a hold with a fighting, drugged up man to keep the rest of the people safe and going too far. The police need to be taught good techniques and holds. But this was not planned murder.
Jan, don't be silly. If he survived , he already had a loaded gun and already threatened a pregnant woman with rape and death to get a fix.
He could have easily have done the same but had to use the gun two days later.
Pierre Kory Plays the WHORE for Globalists on this one. To be fair he was rushed, restricted and submitted his paid for evaluation about the time of the burial of the Aretha Franklin coffin holding GF celebrated remains. Does anyone really think the bizarre racism mania/ defund police madness was spontaneous and organic?
You're out of line.
Thank you. I am out of line. In fact i refuse to line up, refuse to comply and refuse to quit thinking for myself. Thank you again . . great compliment and affirmation in this day and age when we all must get in line or be cancelled . Liz collins wrote a book: They're lying: Media, Left and death of GF.
Police brutality expert George Parry (ironic name huh?) knowledge is good .net
Dr. Kory submitted his report 6-9-20, same day GF buried in TX. Info was highly restricted that early on. For an indepth : see Alpha news MN: May 27, 2121: "Medical experts presented contradictory testimony in Derek Chauvin trial." Worth a read.
BUT IT IS ONLY AN OPINION...and OPINIONS are NOT FACT.
IT could have been neither or both. WE WILL NEVER KNOW. THE JURY ACCEPTED
KORY"s OPINION...but even Dr. Kory will admit he is not GOD.
Experienced, yes, more than most. BUT IT IS HIS O{PINION and people are allowed to have different opinions.
LET IT GO.
And IF he were your doctor, would you just blow off his "opinion" because it's just an opinion? Or would you take it with GREAT seriousness because he has seen and treated HUNDREDS before you?
If you have a different opinion, then you had SURE better have a couple DECADES of doctoring on which to BASE your opinion...
I have the utmost respect for Dr. Kory's expertise (see my comment below - )...and I would certainly take his recommendations and explanations very serously....as a matter of fact, I have. Everything he recommended for treatment of Covid, i have followed. If I ended up in the ER, I would certainly want to be in his hands. Especially if it had to do with my lungs.
It is for a jury to decide...because opinions are just that. Experienced, and carrying a lot of weight, yes.
But the true cause of a death when you don't witness it?. My younger sister was supposed to be born deaf and blind because we children gave my mother German measles. She was the first woman in that state recommended for a therapeutic abortion, when abortions were illegal except in cases like this. This is over 60 years ago. She moved out of state to have my sister, and she was and is fine (and prettier and taller than i as well). I hope I am never put in the position of having to determine truth based on preponderance of evidence and facts that I am not qualified to assess the weight of.... That is something for a jury. They have to weigh facts based on autopsy that they are not qualified to interpret, but the jury renders only a verdict based on few facts and expert opinions from both sides.
Only God knows truth. People here are saying he died from this..or that...they are arguing what is truth. The argument here should not be about the cause of death, but whether or not the prosecution proved someting behond doubt. Oviously Dr. Kory's opinion - his expert opinon, carried the day. But please don't confuse a verdict with the actual truth, which we will never know.
I agree. The doctor makes recommendations/analysis based on his opinions. Doesnt mean you HAVE to believe every word. Its still just an opinion. Thats why we have second opinions. In case the first ones may not be right. I personally would need to know the exact amount of time between the still shot that shows the Fentanyl in his mouth (dont know how long he was in the car after that) plus the time it took to get him out of car and on ground, plus the 8 minutes the knee was on his back before he died, to make a decision on whether or not I believe 3 or 4 times the lethal amount of drugs could cause him to overdose in that amount of time. I would form my own opinion based on that and it would still be just that....an opinion. George proclaiming to not be able to breathe while he was still sitting upright in the car is also suspect IMO.
That is something for a jury? Somehow the mob is smarter than the individual? Is OJ's jury included in this broad generality, this sweeping paean to human perfection?
Kory admits to being surprised, why call him he's a medical malpractice guy.
Never had done a police brutality case. Never would do another one. The expert in this case is one George Parry: spectator.org and knowledgeisgood.net Givesendgo/ chain Free chauvin news
Duchess... one opinion is not as good as another. Some are ill-considered. Some are malicious. Others are the outcome of expert analysis. I would take Kory's over the view of somebody I do not know.
so did the jury. I dont have a problem with that. but people here are quarreling with a straw, as the expression goes. they are arguing about what they think is the truth, not what they think the medical evidence shows. The only one who explained what he thinks the medical evidence shows is Dr. Kory.
Back on May 27,2021 Alpha News MN published a piece: "Medical experts presented contradictory testimony in Derek Chauvin's trial." Worth a read.
These payments are not handouts but money launderings.
You don’t have to agree with Dr. Korey to respect his opinion. He has made his decision based on the evidence he was provided. That doesn’t make you wrong. I’m sure there is evidence you’ve considered that Dr. Korey has not. Your perspective is different than Dr. Korey’s.
I’ve noticed that we’ve become very tribal about our beliefs but these situations are rarely binary and usually involve multiple facets of complexity. We have forgotten how to say, “I understand why you believe what you believe” and leave it at that. Now, when we disagree with someone, it automatically negates everything they have to say about anything, or we have to surrender our beliefs and get in line with the “experts.” Funny how they’re forcing us into binary choices in situations with diverse factors while telling kids sex isn’t binary. Crazy times we’re living in.
It's one thing to trust Dr. Kory, quite another to trust that he was given complete accurate information when he was hired by GF attorney's Ben Crump et al with big money sites on Mpls MN. His report was signed 6-9-2020. The only info he had is what was provided him by GF attorneys. Within 48 hours Mpls Woke boy mayor and brothers of Gf were calling this incident a murder. This was before an autopsy that didn't come out until Friday. GF's ad hoc family had a gofundme up and running within 48 hours assisted by the whole law firm of B. Crump. That netted them 14.7 million before a complaint was filed (it broke the site's own rules for legitimacy) and it shut down. Meanwhile Boy mayor was weeping on GF's casket at the first of three funerals during lockdown and wearing an "I can't breathe" face mask. Spontaneous Protests? Nay. Highly organized. Mpls city council's first priority with Precinct 4 destroyed and burned out shells of bldgs was to ban the restraint that Officer Chauvin used and was illustrated in MPD manual using a three on one demonstration photo. Wake Up people. More is coming soon.
Master Kory has been put in a very awkward and untenable position similar to the world's health professionals "just following protocol": Covid, vaccines,etc.
The autopsy report IS "complete accurate information." (Or do you think Crump managed to edit it?! HA!) I believe/expect Dr Kory ALSO had the second autopsy report.
You are accurate about all the theatrics and stupidity of the black people smelling a HUUUUUGE payout! (Most esp. including Crump!) No question. I don't know HOW we stop that unAmerican playacting to get the biggest possible gibs! I WISH it were doable!
The following is ALSO "just" my opinion. I don't actually KNOW Kory, nor anyone ELSE in MINN. and I have a way WAY lesser medical background than Kory but over the past 3+ years, on the basis of every video or written information he has put on the web -- I have found him to be an honorable man. (I've also chuckled at his dismay at having to give up BEING an idiot-lib by tripping over the seamy underbelly of this world!) I've written here before: I HATE that he agreed to do this; yes I WISH some other lesser doc participated in the circus act.
I do not believe DOCTOR Kory was 'put in an awkward OR untenable position.' He was given ALL the available videos, the autopsy and tox report(s), and his decades of experience. IN. NO. WAY, was that "similar to just following protocols." The protocol for doing an expert report is to look at ALL the available info (NOT merely that provided by the hiring lawyer -- esp. NOT when that lawyer is a slime).
And yes, I do have the smallest niggling bits of 'oh crap; is this once an idiot-lib always an idiot-lib? COULD Kory have consciously or unconsciously always followed the liberal side of any dubious medical decision path? But I balance that with my OWN far, far, far "right" mistrust of lefties and blacks manipulating the courts, town administrators and idiot-libs... I mostly manage to 'control' my knee-jerk responses; although I did manage to seemingly annoy or affront Kory when I challenged him on this (was it a year ago now?) and he sent me to read his actual expert witness report. Having read and considered that report (again, with my medical background and continued self-study these past 20-30 years), I unhappily conclude there was nothing there to disagree with.
Then his excellent Ivermectin book came out -- with an expanded chapter ON the expert witness request and work -- and made it clear there was nothing there to object to. If you haven't read it -- both the book and esp. that chapter -- I commend them both to you.
Liz Collin, an investigative journalist wrote a book compiling data, images etc on 5-25-2020 and had chapters "the autopsy report" "the official autopsy report", "This could be called an overdose", the "commissioned" autopsy report. An autopsy "review"-based an a viral incomplete facebook bystander video, "the other autopsy review". GF had heart disease, Covid when he died, many drugs in his system, "wooden chest syndrome". Sooooo long story short "The autopsy" doesn't exist as such. It has been so mangled and wrangled for political agenda. Alpha news MN has done and continues to publish on this case. Lots of truth telling still coming.
I strongly agree with your post. Sending four policemen to prison for not having the best outcome on an action condemns the residents of a lower end community to a dearth of police protection. What sensible policeman will speed to answer a 911 call from the more challenging part of town? And risk ruin? Loss of pension benefits, jail time?
Stanley, they torturred a man to death. That has nothing to do with with public protection and everything to do with saddists being employed in public positions.
Saddists? Please.
I think he means sadists. But I agree , they essentially tortured him to death and ignored his pleas. He was no threat to anyone. 9 minutes I think it was that he was kept in this position unable to breathe .. What else can you call that but torture.
Thank you, Jay. (Pardon the double 'd' but I have never been required to write that word before, therefore it is not part of my vocabulary). Anyone who does not think that was torture, I would suspect of absence of empathy to the degree of psychopathy. Seriously.
I’m no bleeding heart liberal and I completely agree with you.
Floyd was in police custody and it was the job of the police officers to make sure that the man could at least breathe.
I don’t know if they did it from malice or incompetence or a mixture of the two, but the fact is that they killed him.
And the repercussions from their callous actions will damage this country for decades.
U R welcome and I have to agree with you again!
Well, the thing is, it's exponentially more than "not having the best outcome". It's the sudden, totally unnecessary, and totally avoidable death of a human being (kind of like the vaccine deaths that almost all of us care about, but actually worse in several ways)
"...the sudden, totally unnecessary, and totally avoidable death..." I know you mean well but I lose no sleep when hard core addicts reach their use by date and I would argue strongly that it is not unnecessary and avoidable. Addiction alcohol, drugs, gambling, indebtedness they are problems to avoid and have nothing to do with JMO. Unfortunately, there are many like George Floyd--dead man walking.
So, you're part of the "absence of empathy to the degree of psychopathy" and proud of it, are you? Floyd was a living man walking who was murdered by police. Justice is not just for saints, it's for all or it's not justice.
ask tensely, "Senior d'Anconia, what do you think is going to happen to the world?" "Just exactly what it deserves," "Oh, how cruel!" "Don't ...
The world is a very troubled place right now and it has no troubles that it hasn't fully earned by its own foolishness. Widespread whining over the problems is just plain pitiful and disgusting. There is a very profound need for adults to GROW UP.
Good post, Clodia. The media, like the NY Times, was already half doxxing the jurors, describing their occupations etc. Plus they had to go through a gauntlet of screaming antifa-blm's just to get to the courthouse every day. It was an evil predetermined Stalinist show trial, a kangaroo court. Another thing, 5 minutes after it happened the antifas were out on the street with giant pre-printed "i can't breathe" banners, and all of the media, all in unison as always, were screaming their version of the incident 24/7 doing their best to incite riots, again as always. Preplanned, orchestrated.
Liz Collin book also describes the DOJ plan to arrest Chauvin in court if by some miracle he was acquited of "murder" for civil rights violations. The lack of confidence of The People With An Agenda was Stunning !
Intent and premeditation are required for 1st degree murder. Chauvin was convicted of 2nd degree unintentional murder, 3rd degree murder, and 2nd degree manslaughter. 2nd degree murder requires intent but not premeditation. In Minnesota, 2nd degree unintentional murder doesn't require intent or premeditation. 3rd degree murder also doesn't require intent or premeditation.
According to Minnesota law, third degree murder requires a depraved mind and the intent to intentionally commit an act eminently dangerous to another’s life. Incompetence isn’t enough. I refuse to believe that Officer Chauvin had a depraved mind. He had been lied to so many times that he had learned to tune complaints out. Tragic. Maybe the guidelines need to be changed. But his trial was a political one.
Of course he expressed depraved indifference. As Dr. Kory noted these cops are trained to not restrict a body as they did. Then when a bystander was calling out to them to pay attention they refused. Having doen anti-racist work for many decades it is clear that many white people refuse to take responsibility for their prejudices and have a whole litany of excuses to avoid that responsibility. Intent does not have to conscious as most people operate with automatic reactions to people and situations without ever thinking about the why's or wherefore's of what they do and say. Unlike you, a man like Floyd would be a preferred neighbor to me. Cops are just too full of their own self-aggrandizement and expectation to get away with whatever they do. This is the basis of the fight against Qualified Immunity which allows the police killing of many people, especially those of color.
"Having doen anti-racist work for many decades it is clear that many white people refuse to take responsibility for their prejudices and have a whole litany of excuses to avoid that responsibility.
Ooooh what an amazingly RACIST thing to write! Maybe you should take some responsibility for your prejudice against White folks, and stop trying to shift responsibility off your own race?
"most people operate with automatic reactions to people and situations without ever thinking about the why's or wherefore's of what they do and say."
So, you mean, like, Whites should not consider crossing the street to avoid getting too close to a group of black "youths"? Should stop listening and paying attention to who is approaching them from BEHIND? How do you NOT see that caution comes from "thinking about why's and wherefores" of SO MANY White people being attacked and beaten or killed -- entirely without any provocation except skin color by young black males trying to win a "knock-out game"? (Hey-wait! Isn't THAT racist? Are you doing any anti-racist work on that problem? Trying to stop those attacks?) What about in NYC, where blacks are slicing with razor blades and knives random Whites and Asians on the subways? How about black youths pushing Whites in front of trains? Are those acts racist or not? Should Whites NOT consider those actions anytime they are near blacks? Are you doing any anti-racist work on those?
Yeah, thought not.
Cops In Minneapolis were literally trained to put people they arrested in chokeholds that become fatal if they’re not relaxed.
Chauvin’s ignoring a bystander doesn’t in any way prove that he believed that the bystander might have a point. If a doctor on the scene had made the point that would clearly be intentional. Chauvin may have been very stressed and not too clever. I don’t think your accusations of racism help at all. I know of no credible evidence that African-American officers patrolling African-American neighborhoods make fewer mistakes.
I can agree that the/a bystander carries no authority but if Chauvin was stressed as you describe and part of a trio that were all hyped up together then an outside voice hopefuly would have signaled these cops back to the reality of what they were doing. However despite you discomfort at bringing up racism I feel the need to do so as that has to be part of the reality of what motivated these cops. I have seen it too often that cops operate out of their assumptions about people and often if not typically, see Black people as threatening and less than human and as 'things' that need to be suppressed. While cops will harm/kill white people the conditions are often quite different with white people really threatening. Otherwise it is often seen they cops calm the person and see them as one of them, not other as they do with Black people. In fact I have been treated by cops as I describe simply because i was in the presence of Black people with the cops punishing me for being in alliance with them. They have literally told me that I deserve to be treated badly because of my relation to Black people being abused by the cops. i think there is much you really don't know or understand about the unequal treatment based on race that exists in this country. If otherwise I doubt Flloyd would have been killed .
Remember that polic officer in Chicago who shot a whilte lady in her nightgown for no reasonalble reason?
You're probably thinking of Justine Damond, who was killed by the Somali-born (or Somali lineage ... I'm not sure which) cop Mohamed Noor in Minneapolis in 2017: https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/21/us/mohamed-noor-resentencing/index.html
No, they were not instructed...it was in the manual. The manuals and procedures were changed AFTER Floyds' death....and let's not let the ambulance people off in that case who arrived 10 minutes too late (20 in all) toadminster Narcan.
Yes, it was all a criminal mess and Floyd was victimized by it losing his life. The ambulence drivers can be as obstructionist as the cops on the beat.
Not yet said here is that the history of policing in this country was all about intimidating and controlling Black people after manumission. They developed out of the slave patrols. Policing today is really no different from those early years. White people's property needs protecting and Black people are not real humans and are always suspect just for being alive. That expectation which is racist to the core is what results in these unwarranted police killings.
Nothing you write is factual. It's all paranoic CONJECTURE.
Tanya, you are what I call racist. And before you round on me, I live in a black region in which English is infrequently spoken, many of the people are related to me, and the culture is definitely non-European. But consistent with your comments, I hear way more racist comments from black people than white. Interestingly, the blacker a person is the less likely I am going to hear them come up with "they pick on us because we are black". The lighter the skin the more 'racist' the world is. This aspect of human behaviour causes much merriment among my grand-daughters as we insult our various skin colours; mine being the darkest. Lighten-up princess.
Dr. Kory noted that he had never done a police report before and wouldn't do another one. He was in fact a medical malpractice go -to expert. Dr. Kory was also someone, who it is safe to assume, only dealt with well behaved patients and not out of control, foaming at the mouth lung distressed, fentanyl administered anally "hooping", thrashing about drug addicts. This restraint, in the MPD manual , was GF's only real hope as they waited for ambulance which had been upgraded to lights and sirens. GF had had an overdose in March and also the deadly (I -can't -breathe -disease in April Covid. A police brutality expert weighed in on this: George Parry: spectator.org + knowledgeisgood + WCCO Rajkumar Interview George Parry.
Per Minnesota Law, 3rd degree doesn't require intent and what constitutes "evincing a depraved mind" isn't well defined. Here's the statutes language:
609.195 MURDER IN THE THIRD DEGREE.
(a) Whoever, without intent to effect the death of any person, causes the death of another by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life, is guilty of murder in the third degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 25 years.
As for Chauvin's state of mind, you're just trying to be an arm chair psychiatrist. You don't know Chauvin state of mind. I don't know if Chauvin's history was part of the record, but if it was that wouldn't have been to his benefit when trying to assess Chauvin's mental state. Why? Prior to this encounter with Floyd, in his career, Chauvin had 18 complaints against him on official record and was involved in three police shootings, one of which was fatal. He received two letters of reprimand for misconduct.
Seems, if anything, given his prior history, Chauvin shouldn't have still been on the police force.
Chauvin had had about one complaint filed against him for every year of service. For a high risk job with many unpleasant interactions with troubled people, that seems pretty reasonable if not actually commendable. Two reprimands in twenty years is not bad at all either. Think.
LOL, you're incorrigible. And obviously incapable of objective thought. Thanks again for the laughs.
You come with insults instead of counterarguments because you have no counterarguments and because your parents taught you no manners. Poor you.
Who is Derek Michael Chauvin? Army MP veteran. MPD 19 year veteran with 2 medals of honor + 2 medals of commendation, awarded for conspicuous bravery. Field training officer. Exceptional record with fewer than one complaint per year. One reprimand in 2007. Chauvin is stand up Law and Order man. Currently serving time as a political prisoner. Officer Chauvin: chosen and strengthened by God to go thru the fire to expose wicked people and wicked plans. For such a time as this. Much like Pierre Kory, chosen warriors for truth. .different battlefield. See givesendgo/Chauvin to donate and updates .Free Chauvin Now!
You just don’t get it, do you? Minnesota state law sure as hell requires intent for third degree murder, not intent to kill but intent to clearly be so reckless that you know you must be wildly putting someone’s life in danger.
Are you illiterate? I just gave you the exact language for 3rd degree murder which specifically notes "...without intent to effect the death of any person, causes the death of another by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others..." The only real question is what constitutes a "depraved mind". You're obviously playing an arm chair psychiatrist to fit your preferred narrative. Chauvin has a long history of what could constitute depravity.
Additionally, Chauvin was convicted of 2nd degree unintentional murder & 2nd degree manslughter which per Minnesota law also don't require intent. Here's the language for those statutes:
609.19 MURDER IN THE SECOND DEGREE.
Subd. 2.Unintentional murders.
Whoever does either of the following is guilty of unintentional murder in the second degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 40 years:
(1) causes the death of a human being, without intent to effect the death of any person, while committing or attempting to commit a felony offense other than criminal sexual conduct in the first or second degree with force or violence or a drive-by shooting.
[If Chauvin's actions are construed as a felony offense, then he'd be liable].
609.205 MANSLAUGHTER IN THE SECOND DEGREE.
A person who causes the death of another by any of the following means is guilty of manslaughter in the second degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than ten years or to payment of a fine of not more than $20,000, or both:
(1) by the person's culpable negligence whereby the person creates an unreasonable risk, and consciously takes chances of causing death or great bodily harm to another;
You wrote, and I quote, “Per Minnesota Law, 3rd degree doesn't require intent.”
This simply is not true.
Per Minnesota state law, 3rd degree murder DOES REQUIRE INTENT TO BE EXTREMELY RECKLESS AND RISK KILLING A HUMAN. What it doesn’t require is intent to definitely kill.
In other words, you must intend that your actions CAN kill someone and those actions have to be completely disproportionate. For “real” murder, you must intend that your actions WILL (and not could) kill another person.
if you’re not good at logic, at least you’re good at unfounded insults.
Thanks, that's an important clarification.
I raise another question. This seems to be a common technique. I bet there are numbers which show the % of people who died after the technique has been apply to them. If it were anywhere in the vicinity of unacceptable, police would stop using it. Period!!
I wish someone dig out the numbers.
Next, I do except a premise that a body of a frequent drug user could develop tolerance. Yet, there are levels of drugs that no tolerance would matter. Again, this should not be that difficult to establish and compare to the test results.
I feel deeply sad seeing Dr. Kory involved in this 🙁😢
See givesendgo.com/chauvin to bring justice to this travesty. Kory served as useful idiot to globalists launching the lawlessness steps: from virus to violence. See also Greatest Lie ever sold daily wire.com
Wasn’t he saying that he couldn’t breathe? If he did and Chauvin continued to ignore his plea’s, does it not imply intent? Just wondering...
George Floyd had already been complaining that he “couldn’t breathe” while he was sitting upright in the police car.
So when he said that he “couldn’t breathe” while the officers were sitting on him, they may not have realized that it was different from when he was in the police car. The problem is that (too) many criminals will fake problems to mess with the police. Perhaps the police should nevertheless be instructed to take each one seriously.
I think there is an argument that Officer Chauvin could have been negligent, but given that he had probably been lied to hundreds and more likely thousands of times for every time there was a real problem, and that George Floyd had a lot of health issues going on on that day that made understanding what exactly was going on much more difficult, I don’t think Officer Chauvin was willfully reckless. If he hadn’t been dealing with a situation where people pretty much customarily feign having problems I do think he would have been willfully reckless.
So after Floyd said he couldn’t breathe in the car, for how long (number of minutes) did Chauvin have his knee on Floyds neck?
Did you know that around the world at this specific time, in three other places there images of exactly the same thing? Is this simply a coincidence? https://files.catbox.moe/ojrr80.jpeg
Clodia,
I am going to answer you based upon 3 things: 1. My years of training and experience as a Health Care provider, 2. My years of training and practice of law in 2 different States, and 3. My knowledge of the usual and common practices of training Police Officers before they are given a badge and gun and allowed to practice Law Enforcement.
For my assessment as a Health Care Provider see my above response where I stand side by side with Dr. Kory's assessment of the cause of death of GF.
My Legal analysis of the cause of GF's death and who is directly responsible, legally as well as morally: Law has a standard called the "Reasonable Person Standard" defined as "what a reasonable person, with the same or similar education or training and in the same or similar circumstances would do." Police Officers are trained in CPR and to use it, even after subduing someone who is resisting arrest. This training includes the the FACT that is only takes a lack of sufficient oxygen to the brain, heart and other vital organs for 4 minutes to cause death or irreversable harm. The cell phone videos show the "chockhold was for over 10 minutes, over 2 1/2 times the known, even to Police officers such as Chavin, the time necessary for death or irreversable damage.
Additional Legal analysis includes that "intent" follows the actions of any person. Example: There is an active shooter in your church. a church member has a concealed carry permit and pulls his pistol and shoots at the active shooter. However, he misses the active shooter and hits a church member who dies. His "intent" was to hit the active shooter-no argument there, however, LEGALLY, the intent follows the bullet and this church member can be prosecuted for the murder of another church member, not what the intent was in the mind of the person who pulled the trigger. In other words, each human being is responsible for his actions and the level of responsibility changes as the level of training of the person increases. The level of training for a concealed carry permit elevates the legal definition of "intent" in this case to "murder" not an accidential happening such as inadvertent homicide..
In Chavin's case, he was trained to a higher level than the average person, including training that he knew it would only take 4 minutes of a chokehold like that to cause either death or irreversible damage to GF. His training was that as soon as the imminent threat was over, the chokehold should be released.
The evidence of murder WAS fully recorded, Factually and LEGALLY, by multiple cell phone camera's as well as comments recorded on those cell phone cameras such as "he's not breathing" and "he is dead." Chavin's intent in his mind is not the issue, the issue is the result of what he did based upon his level of training. His level of training elvated his intent, legally, to murder, not as you put it above, "inadvertant homicide."
You have experienced "emotion" as a result of this incident. Chavin was convicted of murder precisely because he violated his level of training and knowledge and that violation was precisely caught on multiple cell phone cameras. You defamation, and yes it was legally defamation, to claim Dr. Kory defamed Chavin by claiming GF was murdered, shows your incomplete understanding of law and the situation that resulted in many deaths and much damage because more than you based what they did and said on emotion instead of facts.
For the record, GF, in my opinion, deserved to be arrested, however, for the record, he did not deserve to be killed on camera, by a policeman who violated the tenents of his training.
In a country of Laws and not of men, each human being deserves to be treated according to the level of training and experience those treating him has and each human being has the right to be treated according to the law. That right for GF was taken away by a policeman who did not follow his level of training and expertise completely.
Chavin will have a lot of time to think back over his actions and his incarceration will send a message to other Law Enforcement Officers to remember to follow, completely, their training, because no one is supposed to be above the law.
Pierre Kory emphatically refutes the claim that the knee on the neck chokehold Floyd was in could have killed him. It simply is not biologically possible. In other words, what you say isn’t just completely wrong, it’s not even possible for it to be true.
Kory reports that the officers sitting on Floyd’s torso caused him to die, which usually doesn’t happen.
Floyd had already told them that “he couldn’t breathe” while he was sitting upright in the squad car; so it wasn’t wildly reckless for them to assume his complaints about being unable to breathe while being sat on were similar in nature to those while not being sat on.
Floyd’s heart, his drug use and his being sat on all contributed to his death that day, his being sat on perhaps the most. He was also a violent criminal whose behavior after his arrest was difficult for the police.
Were they perhaps negligent? I think a case can be made. Was it murder 2 or 3? Of course not.
Perhaps you need to carefully read Dr. Kory's post again. He states clearly that the knee on the neck could collapse GF's trachea because only the front half of the human trachea is cricoid rings. This I know for a fact having an advanced degree in Health Care which included dissecting cadavers and having spent over 32 years in the Operating Room.
Further Dr. Kory stated that having knees in the back by a 2nd policeman, hands handcuffed behind him and legs held by a 3rd policeman there was no way for GF to be able to breathe enough to get air in sufficient to keep him alive.
Had George Floyd told the officer's "I can't breathe" while in the car and before they placed him in the choke hold position, Chavin would have been convicted of First Degree Murder!
When someone can't breathe sitting up, it is a KNOWN death sentence to place them in the choke hold position.
Your first paragraph above belies any reasonable education or understanding of human biology, physiology or even the plain ability to read and understand what Dr. Kory said.
Why don't you volunteer to have your hands cuffed behind you, to be placed face down in a choke hold position with one man's knee on your neck, a second man's knees on your back, a third man holding down your legs for over 10 minutes and see if you can survive without any drugs on board? Then if you survive, write a substack refuting what Dr. Kory clearly states that you have completely misunderstood.
Also, as a retired Lawyer, I find that your lack of knowledge of the Law is showing in your last sentence.
Why don’t you reread what Dr. Kory wrote. I will quote it below. He specifically explained that the knee to the neck could not have suffocated Floyd, because Floyd was still able to speak.
While you are correct that people sitting on a suspect to subdue him can fatally suffocate him, it is rare for this to happen. In other words, contrary to your assertion, there usually is a way for people to breathe in such circumstances. Contrary to what you assert, usually suspects are unscathed by such treatment, but in this case Mr Floyd’s heart and intoxication made this too much.
Lastly, If I was the sort of person who had held a gun to a pregnant woman’s stomach as Floyd did, I would be too ashamed to ever complain about the police being a bit rough during an arrest. Floyd’s death was tragic, but it wasn’t the result of malice from all the evidence I have seen.
Further, it is my opinion that Mr. Floyd did not die of asphyxiation solely due to the pressure on Mr. Floyd’s neck from Officer Chauvin’s knee. Had this been the sole cause, total occlusion of the trachea via external forces would have rendered communication impossible. When Chauvin’s knee was initially placed on Mr. Floyd’s neck, he could phonate (i,.e. make sounds) given that he was recorded pleading with the officers to “get off” of him and then later, just before he became unconscious, he began calling out for his mother. This is impossible with an occluded trachea.
Esteban,
It is clear that you did not carefully read or perhaps you did not understand everything Dr. Kory said in his article.
Have you seen Dr. Kory's today's article: George Floyd's Death - Response to Comments sent out at 12:49 pm today?
If you read and understand it, today's article completely supports what i said, which was in support of what Dr. Kory said yesterday and today's article completely shows you do not understand the complex issues involved that led to DF's death.
Read today's article by Dr. Kory!
You wrote that Floyd’s trachea could have collapsed because of the chokehold. Dr. Kory wrote that they DIDN’T collapse and couldn’t have collapsed because Floyd was still able to “phonate.” What I think about the chokehold to the neck is irrelevant; at the time Minneapolis policemen were taught to put pressure on the neck by the police department.
You wrote that “there was no way for GF to be able to breathe enough to get air in sufficient to keep him alive;” I understand that in strong healthy men what was done to GF would be uncomfortable, but not remotely deadly. Other policemen on this thread have written that it’s very rare for this to result in death. Maybe they know something.
Officer Chauvin had to worry about GF, who was 6 foot four and 250 pounds and badly intoxicated, becoming violent. He didn’t understand that in addition to the crisis with the fentanyl, George Floyd was suffering another crisis, because of what the police were doing to control him until the ambulance arrived. It’s utterly tragic, but I just don’t see any malice.
It's bizarre that you'd describe how Chauvin used his knee to prevent Floyd from rising as a "chokehold."
Paul137,
WAKE UP! I was not the one to describe Chavin's knee on GF's neck as a choke hold! That is how the entire Main Stream Media has described that ever since it happened and that is how the Police Training Manual for that county describes it. Have you been living under a rock since that event hit the news?
Bitterroot Services,
GET OFF YOUR HIGH HORSE! A knee abutting a neck doesn't yield a "chokehold." Here's a dictionary definition of "chokehold": "a restraining hold in which one person encircles the neck of another in a viselike grip with the arm, usually approaching from behind" https://www.dictionary.com/browse/chokehold
The Minneapolis cops didn't do anything like that; there was no encircling of Floyd's neck. What Chauvin et al. were doing was applying the Maximal Restraint Technique, which you can read about in section 5-316 here: https://lawofselfdefense.com/statute/minneapolis-pd-use-of-force-policies/ , last updated in April 2018. There's another section (5-311; very brief) on chokeholds in that page, but Chauvin clearly wasn't doing that.
I certainly haven't been living under a rock, but you've apparently been living in an echo chamber of your own devise "since that event hit the news."
Paul137,
Have you read today's article by Dr. Kory? It is titled George Floyd's Death - Response to Comments and was posted at 12:49 pm today.
If you can read and understand it you will learn that what you think was the cause of GF's death, was not the cause of GF's death.
Perhaps, unless you have an equivalent training and experience in medicine as Dr. Kory has, you can learn something by carefully reading his post today.
You might also learn that my training and experience allowed me to understand the cause of GF's death and that iIagreed with Dr.Kory's analysis yesterday before I read today's article by Dr. Kory.
Paul 137,
I can see you did not read carefully Dr. Kory's post and that you have no idea that there is more than one way to choke someone to death.
The human trachea is not totally surrounded by cartilage, pressure placed on the back of the neck can push the cervical bones into the fleshy portion of the trachea and close off the windpipe and choke a person.
This FACT has been known for well over a century and one of the techniques taught the special forces of more than just the US as a way to take out an enemy guard without him being able to cry for help or do anything else to warn his fellow soldiers there are enemy soldiers around is to sneak up behind, push his head down onto his chest while simultaneously putting pressure on the back of the neck. FYI, there arm in this technique is not anywhere the front of the victim's neck. Find a special forces soldier sometime and ask them to demonstrate it on you. Then you will understand. Special Forces are taught this technique because all soldiers are trained to turn their head to the side if they feel an arm coming around their neck from the back, this allows them to place their chin in the bend of the enemy's elbow which prevents the enemy from choking them. All soldiers are also taught multiple methods of getting out of this failed attempt to choke them once they have their chin in the bend of their enemy's elbow..
By the way, a choke hold can be any method of closing off the windpipe or reducing the area such that the victim can not get enough air/oxygen to remain alive.
It is apparent you have some knowledge, but not a complete knowledge of all the ways to choke a person. You are probably young and determined to succeed in your endeavors. You sound a lot like me and several of my friends some 40 plus years ago. We thought we knew it all and we found out differently.
Take a deep breath and learn from those who have gone before you.
Ultimately suicidal on Mr. Floyd’s part.
“Don’t resist arrest” is the lesson here.
If you weaken your will via opiates to make a clear choice regarding arrest-resistance , well, you made the decision to take opiates in the first place.
I watched the whole thing. I'd like to know how is it that the Chauvin that was at the scene is not the same as the one I saw in court? How is it that a 6'5" Floyd fit into a 5' coffin?
Chauvin knew exactly what he was doing and continued to do it even while Floyd was not only not resisting arrest, he was dead. It was torture, nothing less. That it is in a policew manual comes as no surprise. The only good side of this story is that Floyd is dead.
It's good that Floyd is dead -- his was NOT a life well lived -- but the injustice to the cops has been monstrous. If an honest history of these times is ever written -- no sure thing! -- the treatment of the four cops will be likened to the Dreyfus affair.
They're the victims. Floyd was a dead man walking.
If it's true that he had been reprimanded multiple times in the past for over-reaching action (and I'm not sure it IS true) , the department itself is derelict in their duty and should be publicly humiliated in the least.
Two reprimands in about twenty years. For a cop on the streets, I’d bet that that’s above average.
Yeah, that definitely sounds way less draconian than the language I heard. Even if Dr. Kory is right, the jury didn't hear that analysis. So based on what the defense lawyer claimed was necessary to prove, that trial didn't prove it. I think the jury just voted their disgust instead of what they heard in court. A now-deceased friend of mine always said she never wanted to be on trial with a jury of her peers. And this instance is an example of what she feared.
The Jury knew they would the media and BLM activists in their driveways day and night if they didn’t convict.
I had forgotten about that part. That alone should be a basis for appeal. How absurd to think a scenario like that is consistent with a fair trial. Our government makes organized crime look like angels.
Rule of Law and Constitution or Rule of Mob is what is at stake. An investigative journalist Maryam Henein has a new book coming soon: "The GF Psy-Op". She says, "The GF story we've been fed is a monumental false narrative that I'm committed to exposing. It was a partly fabricated event, premeditated to take us from virus to violence and ultimately, to divide and destroy America."
Thank you Dr. Kory for this explanation!!! Like you I want the TRUTH to be told in any and all situations whether it be the Covid planned Demic, use of HCQ and Ivermectin as effective medicines in treating disease and autopsies in criminal cases!!! Integrity is fleeting in our society today and we must always be of the highest honor in all we present!!!
Thank you Dr. K. I read your persuasive explanation when you first published it.
And I still would rather live with neighbors like Officer Chauvin than George Floyd.
THE TRUTH CANNOT BE KNOWN with any CERTAINTY. THESE ARE ALL OPINIONS.
OPINIONS are not FACTS/TRUTHS.
The jury decided to believe Dr. Kory's OPINION.
Justice is NOT perfect. Humans are not infalliable.
Stop trying to force what you beleive is true based on TWO opinions...Tucker's and Korys.
Accept that we will never know, and everyone is allowed to have their own opinion.
Stop trying to make OPINION into fact.
Exactly. Tucker is not a doctor but he has an opinion about the Covid shots. I agree with his opinion more than the millions of doctors who are still insisting otherwise.
A jury never heard or saw Dr. Kory's stale report filed with GF attorney's 6-9-2020.
His opinions were never even known publically until now and were NEVER cross examined. GF attorney's bought and paid for this report for the civil case not a trial.
Thanks for your integrity and commitment to truth
Dr. Kory, thank you for your integrity and your courage. Tucker speaks a lot of truths, but not all that he speaks is true. At the core, he’s a human too with all the faults us humans have. It’s not easy to challenge a voice like Tucker’s. 🫡
George Floyd was yelling "I can't breathe" while sitting in the back of the squad-car. They only pulled him out of the car because he was throwing a fit that he "couldn't breathe". High dose Fentanyl causes severe respiratory depression that can lead to heart-attack. Fentanyl overdose causes Cessation of autonomic breathing process which causes asphyxiation that can cause heart-attack. Nobody had a knee on Floyd's chest as he yelled "I can't breathe" while sitting upright in the back of the squad-car, quite obviously highly "jacked up" on his favorite opiate.
And, a monetary settlement was awarded BEFORE “the facts were settled “💰= 27 million.
Do you honestly think Chauvin can get a fair trial?
The 27 million was awarded MID criminal trial : in fact they were in the process of choosing the seventh juror when compromised city council agreed to civil settlement in a closed door session. The lack of confidence was stunning that they would get the guilty verdict they needed. They even had Maxine fly through to rabble rouse at a critical spot. Afterall, They had already named a national bill after GF and don't forget the burned out Mpls and Mayor Frey declared Murder! within 48 hours! Destroyed our system of justice right there unchallenged. No longer would a man be innocent until proven guilty. If you have Agenda media, corrupt AG's , doctors who are willing to be well compensated and deliver what their employers need and never look back, etc. etc. etc. no one is safe .
This is what makes me question it, that he was saying he couldn’t breathe in the car and asked to be placed on ground. Very sad situation all around
Working in law enforcement is truly a “fly by the seat of your pants” job at times, and nothing is ever set in stone. You must be a troubleshooter and a quick decision maker. You don’t have time to “think it over” and sometimes your body and mind “take over”-tunnel vision. Your body does exactly what it’s suppose to do in an extremely stressful and dangerous situation.
They all should have recognized the signs and administered Narcan to Floyd: and saved his life.
The officers most like didn’t have Narcan on them.
The way they quickly and unceremoniously lunked his lifeless body onto the stretcher without checking his vitals was extremely suspicious, as though they were rapidly completely a staged "mission" and the objective was complete... very suspicious .
I think at the time (and I COULD BE QUITE WronG) that the ambulances had the Narcan..not the cops.
So a police officer, who heard the man say he couldn’t breathe in the back of the car, proceeds to then place his knee on the neck of that very man? What did he expect would be the outcome?!
Do you have a video link that shows that? I can't find video of that.
There is video of everything assembled: Expose Film: Who Killed GF? at https://centaurfilmworks.com . Also The Greatest Lie Ever Sold www.dailywire.com
Updates: givesendgo.com/Chauvin Also Liz Collins book: They're Lying: Media, Left and Death of GF
Thanks a lot for the links. He freaked out about being put in a police car and seemed genuinely terrified. Yes he caused himself to end up on the sidewalk. Then the three policemen held him down prone on the sidewalk and he passed out. They should have immediately put him on his side when he became unresponsive, but instead continued to keep him prone because an ambulance was coming. It seems clear to me that he was killed by the force of the police. Maybe the fentanyl had something to do with how fast you passed out, but the fact that he was unresponsive - for whatever reason - and they still kept him prone is the damaging evidence.
Soulbee3, Looking for something else, I came across the answer about side position recovery. Using the restraint they used is right from MPD manual. Side position recovery is mentioned if a hobble had to be used, which it wasn't.
Ah, interesting. To me it''s not the type of restraint that matters, it's the condition of the person being restrained. A hobble restraint can cause someone to pass out, and so can prone positioning with pressure. If he's passed out they are out of danger, I don't see a reason to keep him prone. I do understand the police see people in all types of conditions, and people can be incredibly strong especially under the influence of drugs. The only thing I can think of is if they were concerned he would wake up in a side position and they would have a hard time restraining him. But I don't think this is a valid concern cuz there were three of them.
You should watch Candace’s documentary. He wasn’t on his neck. It wasn’t murder. Bad police work yes. Murder no. Also, Breonna Taylor narrative was also a lie & led to destruction of our city. We knew the real story, because husband is LMPD homicide detective. The entire BLM narrative was a purposeful lie to cause chaos and divide the country. Nothing new to we law enforcement families. We already had lived through “hands up don’t shoot”... another lie. I believe you probably think your analysis is correct. Maybe it is. But I hope you and other colleagues won’t fall for divisive headlines immediately after these cases happen. An officer we know shot and killed an unarmed man and you never heard about it. In March 2020, my husband worked numerous murders and shootings involving teenagers in Louisville, most of them black. None of them made national news. So, respectfully you missed the point.
I am not sure what "point" I missed as I did not address them. I took special care to focus only on the physiologic and medical evidentiary facts of this one event. I did not delve into the wider sociologic aspects you refer to, nor was I asked to. It was a medical opinion, nothing more.
Glad to hear you had no biases in your analysis. In my opinion, the “point” in the re-evaluation of this case was to expose the pressure people felt to come to one conclusion. Chauvin’s inevitable conviction is similar to some of your own experiences in medicine. I find it odd that you don’t see that.
Exactly, this people think that political wider context will change physiological outcomes. Ridiculous.
It is a fundamental problem with human beings isn't it? Moral judgement of another gets in the way of critical thinking.
And you Dr. Kory have an experienced opinion, and the jury chose to beleive yours.
Don't even pay attention to Tucker...he's allowed to have his...and quite frankly, he had enough fentanyl in him to slay an elephant...so there is alwasy going to be a diference of opinion. As an experienced Dr., the jury chose yours.
Let it go.
A jury never saw Dr. Kory's stale report from limited info 6-9-2020. It was procured to deal with the civil case. His info was never presented nor subject to cross examination.
Sorry Doc that is wrong. This was negligent homicide without a doubt. The lack of the ability to expand the diaphragm is the issue not the fentanyl. That drug was a contributory factor but absent the chest compression he does not die. This has nothing to do with headlines this is just plain old respiratory physiology. When you cannot breath because of lack of expansion of the diaphragm you will expire. Chauvin was partially to blame but the other 3 on the chest cavity and lower back that did not allow respiration and expansion of the diaphragm. Clear as day- had nothing to do with his neck or fentanyl. That was all wrong.
Breonna Taylor was murdered that whole thing was bad go read it
BF
Negligent homicide was not the charge and is not murder. Breonna Taylor wasn’t murdered. Her boyfriend shot at the police. He nearly killed Mattingly. Chauvin’s life is ruined over bad tactics. Floyd was no hero and never should have been martyred. Watch Candace’s movie if you haven’t. Tells another side.
I watched Candace’s documentary, but it did not address the things that Dr Kory addresses . He is a doctor , a specialist and she is a commentator. I’m surprised you’d take the word of a TV personality over a doctor . I’m sure she believes it , and I was willing to believe her and of course she believes it was a tragic death , but I trust Dr Kory’s judgement .
Dr. Rutherford correctly points out that Dr. Kory’s cause of death analysis may be correct, but is really beside the point. This trial was a travesty of justice, hurting the people of this neighborhood the most. And awarding Mr. Floyd’s family millions of taxpayer dollars is disgusting.
No, your comment is beside the point . The point is the cause of death , what happened after is not the subject of this piece. I agree there are reasons to be very angry at what happened , but how he died should be acknowledged .
It’s common for doctors to disagree on cause of death. I trust Dr. Kory’s expertise but also believe the other medical examiner deserves respect and consideration. Many deaths involving fatal arrhythmia are often labeled “inconclusive.” God knows what killed George Floyd. It’s tragic that so many cities were destroyed over one tragic case, regardless of what happened. The media is complete garbage. I know I don’t want to relive that year. We never saw my husband. But, 2024 will likely bring more race riots, because history repeats and it’s an election year.
Not true the cause of death is exactly the point as is the manner that it was carried out. This was a very public display of callousness never seen before. Indeed the WHOLE WORLD SPOKE OUT ABOUT IT.
This was an absolute travesty and an embarrassment. We were mocked and ridiculed about our screaming democracy all over the world and engaging in selective tyranny here in the US. We cannot be the torch bearer of freedom and liberty and execute people on the street with such indifference. Further Chauvin et al had a history of misconduct- 17 times?? How many people does he get to kill before we put this mad dog down? Your own senator Klobuchar was involved. Amy Klobuchar, who is a U.S. Senator from Minnesota, previously served as the Hennepin County Attorney (District Attorney) in Minnesota from 1999 to 2007. During her tenure as a prosecutor, she was involved in various cases, including those that involved police officers. WHY?? Why did she not put a stop to this?? Klobuchar hurt the people in your community for not putting this mad dog down. Stop counting the Floyd families money because that prompts questions and suspicions about YOU. Get to the real issue. Having a senator that did not do her duty as a DA -17 times- IS DISGUSTING AND THE REAL ISSUE
BF
First off I respect your husband for what he does and thank him for his service to the community doc. Moreover I am pleased that you are so supportive and you should be as his wife and possibly the mother of his children. I admire your passion however we disagree.
I do agree and I do believe that they over charged them however it was homicide. Murder is the unlawful killing of another person with intent and malice aforethought.
Malice can be inferred by the acts and in some jurisdictions it is.
Murder is typically considered one of the most serious crimes in most legal systems and is often categorized into different degrees or classifications, such as first-degree murder and second-degree murder, based on the circumstances and intent involved.
Negligent homicide, also known as involuntary manslaughter in some legal systems, is a criminal offense that involves causing the death of another person through a negligent or reckless act. Negligent homicide does not involve a deliberate or premeditated intent to cause death, but rather it results from the failure to exercise reasonable care or caution, which leads to a fatality.
Negligence: The person accused of negligent homicide must have acted in a negligent manner, meaning they failed to exercise the level of care and caution that a reasonable person would have under similar circumstances.
Here Chauvin and the other officers failed to exercise reasonable care or caution that led to Floyd's death and that is not in dispute. There use of force was also disproportionate as Floyd was not a threat to the community with a fake 20 dollar bill.
Causation: The negligent act must be a direct or proximate cause of the victim's death. This means there must be a clear connection between the defendant's actions and the fatal outcome.
Here had Chauvin et al not been so reckless they would not have caused the death of Floyd. The actual cause of his death was their actions. But for their actions he would be alive. It is therefore foreseeable that their acts were the actual and proximate cause of his death
Lack of intent: Unlike murder or other intentional homicide offenses, there is no intent to kill or harm another person. Negligent homicide involves unintentional conduct.
Here the officers did not intend to kill Floyd. They intended to arrest him but acted recklessly in doing so. No one expects the officers who are not trained physicians to understand the pathophysiology of respiratory failure by the mechanical blockage of the diaphragm. However WE ALL EXPECT them to understand the risks of their actions and to be reasonably compassionate and astute to the cry's for help. Floyd was not faking it. 4 grown men had their weight on him.
No one cast Floyd as a hero, most of us are not hero's outside of our own home and lives.
Here the vitriol from the public, no matter how inappropriate, was the result of the callused and dismissive manner by which they spilled the life of Floyd. No man is without sin- NO MAN. Floyd's history should not have disqualified him from receiving what the constitution promised " the due process of law and the presumption of innocence". Floyd was not afforded that.
Breonna Taylor was murdered
The police officers involved in the case were executing a "no-knock" search warrant at Breonna Taylor's apartment in a drug investigation. This type of warrant allows law enforcement to enter a residence without announcing their presence, and they can break down the door if necessary. However, they are required to have a legitimate reason for requesting such a warrant. The warrant was obtained under false pretenses.
They lied to a judge. Indeed the person responsible for obtaining the search warrant for Breonna Taylor's apartment was a detective named Joshua Jaynes. Detective Jaynes was the one who provided information to the judge to secure the no-knock search warrant, and it was based on this information that the warrant was issued. In the warrant application, Jaynes stated that he had verified through a U.S. Postal Inspector that suspicious packages had been delivered to Taylor's apartment for a person involved in a drug investigation.
The U.S. Postal Inspector had, in fact, stated that no packages related to the investigation were delivered to Taylor's apartment. This misinformation about the packages was a key element in obtaining the no-knock warrant. THUS THE WARRANT WAS PROCURED BY FRAUD.
The post office is a federal office and using them to commit a crime is a federal crime. The Justice Department charged Kelly Goodlett with helping to falsify the affidavit for the search warrant that authorized the “no-knock” entry into Taylor’s apartment in March 2020. She plead guilty and will testify against the others.
As a result of the fake warrant the officers burst into the home. Taylor and her boyfriend, Kenneth Walker, were inside at the time. Walker, believing the intruders were intruders, fired a shot, which struck an officer in the leg. The officers returned fire, shooting multiple rounds. Breonna Taylor was hit by several bullets and tragically died in her own home.
“Goodlett acknowledged that she helped another LMPD detective and their supervisor obtain a warrant to search Taylor’s home, despite knowing that the officers lacked probable cause to do so,” the federal prosecutors said in a statement on Aug. 23
Kyle Meany and Joshua Jaynes—are accused of lying to get the search warrant for Taylor’s home. Meany and Jaynes are also charged with violating Taylor’s civil rights, which carries a maximum of up to life in prison if they are convicted.
Breonna Taylor had nothing to do with drugs and you do not get to just make up a lie to break in someone's home. That is an illegal search and seizure.
Finally I respect and admire the police and real law enforcement. We have all seen that the DOJ and FBI and state and local police departments and detectives can make legitimate mistakes and that they can also conspire and break the law as if they are above the law using the color of their authority.
For example look what happened to Donald Trump before the 2016 election and all through his presidency and after and even now. This is a disgrace. NO 2 WAYS ABOUT IT. They are treating Trump very badly and it is obvious to everyone. Many blacks relate to this and have declared he is being treated just like a brother. THAT IS WRONG FOR ANYONE.
We need responsible policing and they need the respect of the community.
PEACE
BF
They knocked several times. Respectfully, you are wrong about the Breonna case. You bought the lies.
Respectfully Doctor. That is complete and utter nonsense.
What is it that you do not get about the warrant being procured by fraud. They lied to a judge and they referenced the postal service making it a federal crime. This is a fraud on the court utilizing the US Postal Service. The police officer admitted that she lied and conspired with others. What "lies" are you suggesting that I purchased? She confessed!!!
Moreover you are a physician and are expected to show good judgment. These facts are undisputed at this time.
This " NO KNOCK' warrant being obtained in bad faith means that they had NO PROBABLE CAUSE to get a warrant or to even come to the house. When there is no probable cause to enter you are engaging in what is known as an Illegal search and seizure and a BRAZEN violation of the 4th amendment. THEY HAD NO LEGAL STANDING OR JURISDICTION TO BE THERE. This is a constitutionally prohibited act SO WHY ARE THEY THERE? I am sure you do not want to hear this but it is most likely predicated on RACISM. Indeed her life and her rights do not matter because she is black and that is always the way it has been done.
They judged her and deprecated her and her rights as a person and a human being and then made up lies about her and then broke into her house. She was killed in a depraved manner because it was the police who killed her during a "police investigation" and she was innocent and they knew it, that is why they lied about the warrant. They had nothing to base it on.
Breonna Taylor had a right to bear arms in her home under the SECOND AMENDMENT AND to defend herself WITH DEADLY FORCE against an illegal attempt to subdue her under false pretenses and fraudulent warrant procured by fraud ARE FALSE PRETENSES.
Dr. Rutherford, Breonna Taylor was murdered in her home during her sleeping hours. This was a SHAMEFUL AND ILICIT ACT and you should NOT defend it because it prompts questions and suspicions about YOU.
This will not be manslaughter either because of the numerous constitutional violations noted herein. They really should ask for first degree with special circumstances because this MURDER was fomented under the color of their authority as officers of the court with federal violations
BF
Thank you Dr Kory. That makes complete sense. I'm hoping Tucker Carlson has the integrity to change is position if he's presented & persuaded with your explanation/view point.
Dr. Kory excellent analysis. You should have called me and I would have told you that in about 5 minutes.
As a spine surgeon I know that Floyd did not die of the knee on the neck and thus Chauvin is actually innocent. This is unpopular. As a matter of fact he is excluded. The real reason that Floyd died was because he could not expand his diaphragm. Yes he was suffocated.
Tucker and 90% of the physicians do not know that even though Floyd was speaking. That meant he could move air in and out of the trachea. Soft tissue swelling would have to be prolonged in the cervical spine and enough to cause closure. That typically happens when there is an anaphylactic reaction or a drug reaction from a medication like the BMP infuse. Notorious for causing death by soft tissue swelling.
The reason why I was clued in actually had nothing to do with my medical training. It was due to my sports background. In wrestling we use a maneuver called a "tight waist" where you wrap your arm around the opponent's waist and pull tight. This decreases the ability for the opponent to expand his diaphragm. A much more dramatic example is that of a person who gets caught in a scissors maneuver where the legs are scissored closed around the stomach or just below the chest under the xyphoid process. This renders the opponent completely helpless in seconds because it is not dead weight but an active compression forcing the diaphragm up allowing no respiration and causing extreme pain.
I am surprised that more people did not figure it out actually. There is a tragic story of a medical student who got stuck in a cave in Utah and he died the exact same way and they left his body there. I often think of him. As his chest was compressed and he expired as a result of prolonged inability to respirate.
By the way this works on animals as well. I have cats and I love my cats. All are strays and indoor outdoor and just grew up to be huge some are about 20 lbs. but at times cats act like cats and scratch and bite etc. which I am good with. When that get's out of hand I grab a handful of their tummy's skin and hair underneath and and tightly squeezing it you can hear the air exhale and the fracas is over. No pain just completely incapacitated by a lack of oxygen and then let go.
Same with large dogs. The tight waist is such a useful management tool because it causes no permanent injury once you let off of it and it requires only a few seconds to get the point across.
I often wonder if I could accomplish it with a big cat, a tad bit more dangerous because they weigh 600 pounds and can kill you with one bite to your neck. However it is still a matter of position and leverage and strength of course.
Unless Tucker changes his prior ways, I doubt he'll retract or respond in any way. I contacted his producer after he said the Texas Army National Guard had not been deployed to the border when they had been there for months. My son is in the Texas Army National Guard and has been there a year and a half. I applaud that he produces information that others don't, but he seems to choose the pragmatic, teleological route at times in order to prove a point unfortunately.
I'm now certain that doing the right thing directly into the blast of the winter storm of evil is our only chance.
Ethically, you are right. Tactically, you aid the enemy. You need to think this out.
That's exactly what I mean. I don't believe it's right to think tactically. I think it's right to think and do what is right to the best of your ability. Pragmatism is a hamster wheel that almost never brings about good fruit (i.e. a broken clock is only right twice a day). Choosing to do the right thing...and in Pierre's case against a juggernaut to boot...takes courage because, although you are sure the fruit it bears will be good, you don't know what it may mean for you in the process (e.g. Peter hung upside down).
What you say is right, in times of peace. But Americans do not seem to grasp we are in the middle of WWIII, even though the US created this situation. Thus, priorities change. Analogy... I am opposed to violence, but if a person is about to shoot me, I will shoot him first. I intuit that you will nobly refuse to shoot and we will scrawl that on your tombstone. If we have time. But probably not.
With all due respect and as a BC Pulm/CCM myself who has seen many drug overdose patients, especially narcotics, I can attest from experience, that this presentation and scenario is certainly consistent with narcotic induced respiratory failure, hypoxia and death. I have personally seen many drug abusers who initially have almost superhuman strength and combativeness, perhaps related to being stimulated by catecholamine surge during a period where they are being restrained under very stressful conditions. If they have taken oral forms of narcotics, especially sustained release formulations, there will be a gradual increase in the absorption of the drug which could certainly reach a threshold which overcomes the catecholamine release. While again, I respect Dr. PK, all need to be aware that paid "expert witnesses" are not completely unbiased individuals and that his and my opinion are just that, opinions. The truth is therefore difficult to ascertain definitively. In the end, no one is deserving of an apology here, simply for coming up with a different conclusion after analyzing the evidence.
I certainly agree with your characterization of overdoses. But your argument is founded on exactly what I addressed - the idea that his "overdose" was perfectly timed with the application of multiple injurious and restrictive forces to his thorax and neck. Statistically improbable if not impossible. I am shocked to learn about how little people read my logic and analysis, I presented numerous data showing that such a conclusion is literally impossible to reach given the complete lack of clinical, observational evidence that he was SEVERLY opiate intoxicated at any point of his arrest ordeal. Your response proves that it is too emotional of a topic for people to be objective.
I'm a little surprised at your response. The statement " statistically improbable if not impossible" is a pretty strong statement, but again is pure conjecture and opinion on a subjective review of the facts. The emotional aspect of this seems to be high here, but not from me. I have no dog in this fight as opposed to someone who was hired to have an opinion here. Stay well, PK.
I said more than that. Re-read above.
I didnt see the drugs in his mouth til he was already in the police car so he wouldnt necessarily have to be high in all of the videos. How much time did he spend in the car total before he was taken out and then spent another 8 minutes on the ground before he passed? Seems like more than enough time to overdose on lethal amounts of anything. Im not convinced either way yet.
He was inside the police car for less than a minute.
https://youtu.be/XkEGGLu_fNU?si=Nd8mX-2ebu2FmD_8
If you consider the fact that he said "I can't breathe" multiple times, while upright and not being restrained, before being placed on the ground, then the calculus for "statistically improbable" seems to change a bit.
“the idea that his "overdose" was perfectly timed with the application of multiple injurious and restrictive forces to his thorax and neck. Statistically improbable if not impossible”
Doesn’t this improbability only hold if we assume the timing of his criminal drug use and the timing of his interaction with law enforcement are not correlated?
In other words, he only was in that position at that time because he was using narcotics at that time, right? That’s why the cops were involved to begin with.
With all due respect Fentanyl hardly comes in oral form. Fentanyl usually is snorted, smoked or injected in which case it is rapidly absorbed which is what a longtime opiate addict like mr. Floyd was. So your hypothesis is no good with slow release i guarantee you. Heavy addicts do not care about slow release. Furthermore all of you doctors completely overlook the methaamphetamine which was in floyds blood. He apatently took an 8-ball which is a combination of fentanyl and speed. The speed helps the addict to stay alert even on very high doses of fentanyl. Imo hos death was from his heart and you all obsess nearly idiotically on respiratory failure. I see that all your degrees have goven you blindness to the real world and hampers you to see the truth despite looking for it so closely. He couldnt breath due to heartfailure.
The meth makes a huge differnce, so does the way they take it.
I remember 8 balls being heroin and cocaine...but now fentatnyl and meth makes a lot of sense.
Absolutely not! You're wrong. Unless you are one of the world's leading pulmonary specialists and have spent many years practicing your technical skill on actual patients, there is nothing similar between yours and Dr. Kory's results.
You're confused about the difference between fact and opinion.
A FACT is a statement that is true or real and is supported by evidence, and if you took the time to read his very detailed medical actual evidence you would see that.
An OPINION is a person's belief or thought about something that may or may not be based on facts.
A fact is a piece of information that has objective reality, while an opinion is a judgment or appraisal that is formed in the mind and is subjective.
He was paid for his time to evaluate and study the medical evidence, not to merely "give an opinion.".
Those people with "superhuman strength" are on Phencyclidine, commonly known as PCP, is the drug name for the hallucinogenic substance also referred to by street names such as "angel dust," "wet," or "sherm." PCP is NOT AN OPIATE. PCP is a dissociative anesthetic that was originally developed for medical and veterinary use but is now classified as an illegal and controlled substance due to its hallucinogenic and unpredictable effects on users. PCP does not actually provide "superhuman strength." Instead, it can lead to a loss of pain perception, a feeling of invulnerability, and reduced inhibitions, which can result in individuals engaging in reckless and sometimes violent behavior.
One of its known effects is to depress the central nervous system, which can include suppressing respiratory function. When taken in high doses or in situations of overdose, PCP can lead to significant and potentially life-threatening respiratory depression. Naloxone (Narcan) is not effective in reversing the effects of PCP (phencyclidine) or other non-opioid substances.
The oral absorption of fentanyl is generally considered to be relatively poor, which is why oral fentanyl formulations are not commonly used for pain management. When fentanyl is taken orally, it undergoes significant first-pass metabolism in the liver, which can reduce its effectiveness and delay its onset of action. Fentanyl is sometimes used in combination with other substances, such as alcohol or other drugs, which can increase the risk of overdose.
Some people obtain fentanyl from illegal sources, and it may be in the form of counterfeit pills or powder. These illicit forms of the drug can be extremely potent and unpredictable, increasing the risk of overdose. Floyd may have had access to such drugs however I do not believe that this is the cause of death.
The problem here as I see it is that Floyd was unable to respirate. The force on his abdominal thoracic cavity from the weight of 4 men is able to impede normal diaphragmatic cycling and breathing. That would be at least 280Kg ( 4 x70kg) or about 618lb. That is a reasonable assumption.
Brave, the statement "those people...are on Phencyclidine" is not always true. This is a misleading statement that takes away from the truth. While PCP can have the effects mentioned, I have managed many extremely physically aggressive men and women who required 4-5 security guards while having a negative drug screen for PCP.
Unfortunately, there are many assumptions in your reply, many of which are inaccurate, therefore undermining the rest of your argument. If your background is as described, I doubt your experience in this area surpasses mine, but we'll never know since this is a message board that solves nothing other than to promote discord among presumably knowledgeable people. My entire point was not to denigrate PK however it appears to have been interpreted that way. I do abhor the ad hominem attacks that unfortunately permeate civil discourse today which results in the failure to address the true cause and solution to problems. Best wishes.
FT your statements were taken and answered in the context in which they were given. " I have personally seen many drug abusers who initially have almost superhuman strength and combativeness, perhaps related to being stimulated by catecholamine surge during a period where they are being restrained under very stressful conditions."
The drug most notorious for the appearance of superhuman strength is by far PCP.
The only comments that have been misleading are YOUR COMMENTS. Alternatively your comments could reflect ignorance and or bias. You have purposely or ignorantly mixed the classes of drugs.
You have alleged in your vast experience that you have seen patients presumably on fentanyl as this is the basis of the discussion who have had superhuman strength. The only drug Alternatively you believe that patients were on some elicit drug can have superhuman strength as the result of catecholamine release.
The presumption is that Floyd was on Fentanyl a drug that caused respiratory depression and death. That is the focus of this adversarial discussion. We will discuss the presence of methamphetamines' as well.
Fentanyl is a powerful synthetic opioid, not a natural opiate. While both natural opiates and synthetic opioids act on the same receptors in the brain and produce similar effects, they differ in their origin and chemical structure. Fentanyl, on the other hand, is entirely synthetic and is not derived from opium or the poppy plant. Fentanyl does not directly cause a significant increase in catecholamines, such as dopamine and norepinephrine, like some stimulant drugs (e.g., cocaine or amphetamines) do. It's a potent depressant and can slow down respiration. Fentanyl can cause drowsiness and sedation, which is the opposite of the alertness and increased energy associated with stimulants. You have noted that Floyd was combative and thus that combative nature was not from fentanyl. Fentanyl itself does not stimulate the release of catecholamines. In contrast to stimulants, opioids like fentanyl typically have depressant effects on the central nervous system.
Catecholamines can lead to the " perception" of increase strength. Stimulant drugs like cocaine, amphetamines, and other substances that increase the release and availability of catecholamines, particularly dopamine and norepinephrine, can lead to perceived increased strength and enhanced physical performance. This perceived increase in strength is not the result of actual physical changes in muscle strength or capability. Instead, it's primarily due to the stimulant effects on the central nervous system and the brain.
Drugs that cause the release of catecholamines, such as stimulants like cocaine and amphetamines, typically do not cause respiratory depression. In fact, these drugs often have the opposite effect, leading to increased respiration (breathing rate).
Stimulants like cocaine work by increasing the activity of the central nervous system, leading to effects such as increased alertness, energy, and euphoria. Cocaine is not an opiate; it is a different class of drugs. Cocaine was not found in Floyd.
That leaves amphetamines. Methamphetamines were found in Floyd. A central nervous system stimulant that can increase heart rate and blood pressure. The toxicology report from George Floyd's autopsy, conducted by the Hennepin County Medical Examiner's Office, did detect the presence of methamphetamine in his system, but the report did not specify the exact quantity or concentration of methamphetamine found. The toxicology report listed the presence of methamphetamine but did not provide specific details about the quantity or dosage.
The level of a toxin or a substance can be quantified in a toxicology report. Toxicology is the scientific study of the adverse effects of chemicals, including drugs and other substances, on living organisms. When toxicologists analyze biological samples, such as blood or urine, they often use various methods to quantify the concentration of specific substances present in the sample.
Gas Chromatography-Mass Spectrometry (GC-MS): This is a widely used technique for the separation, identification, and quantification of chemicals in a sample. It can provide precise measurements of the concentration of specific substances. Liquid Chromatography-Mass Spectrometry (LC-MS): Similar to GC-MS but used for substances that are not volatile or do not readily vaporize. It is often used to analyze drugs and their metabolites.
Immunoassays: These are tests that use antibodies to detect and quantify specific substances, such as drugs, in a sample. They are commonly used in clinical and forensic toxicology.
Enzyme-Linked Immunosorbent Assay (ELISA): A type of immunoassay used for quantifying the concentration of certain substances, such as drugs or hormones.
The official autopsy report listed the cause of death as "cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression."
Quantifying the levels of toxins or substances in a toxicology report is important for understanding their potential role in a person's health or in an investigation, such as a criminal case. These quantitative measurements help determine the concentration of a substance in the body, which can be crucial for assessing its potential effects and determining the cause of certain symptoms or outcomes.
Why was this not done? Let me tell you why. They did not want to disclose the amount because it was low.
The official autopsy report listed the cause of death as "cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression." The manner of death was classified as a homicide.
Drugs were not the cause of his death. There was no PCP. Fentanyl causes a decrease in catecholamines. The amount of methamphetamines was not quantified and is unlikely to have contributed to the perception of " superhuman strength".
His conduct was most likely related to the anxiety he felt concerning returning to jail. Anxiety can cause paranoia and a release of catecholamines.
Your discussion, for whatever reason, was not only incomplete but did not clarify which drugs you were implicating and those drugs were not in his system and therefore your offering was misleading. The level of Methamphetamine was not quantified and that goes against respiratory depression.
I have been a surgeon since 1985 and have likely seen far more drug users in LA and Detroit in the ER than you. In my view the cause of death was suffocation by mechanical compression of the thoracoabdominal cavity prohibiting the cycling of the diaphragm in normal respiration secondary to pressure from the weight of 4 average size 70kg men equaling over 280kg or over 600 lbs.
BF
This column only seems to address events once Floyd was on the ground. However, I watched the police bodycam showing Floyd in the police car. He was sitting upright and he was already saying "I can't breathe." He was saying this long before he was on the ground, knee or no. Why did he say this in the police car? I presume he was drowning in his own bodily fluid rushing into his lungs from an overdose. With 3 times the lethal level of fentanyl in his blood, that seems plausible. The article above appears to imply that his breathing was unobstructed until he was put on the ground, but that just isn't so.
I’d really like to hear a response to this-- I have doubts Floyd was strangled but I’m willing to change my mind
Until I read your post, I had accepted the fentanyl overdose explanation that had been offered in a number of places (the circumstances surrounding the crime, the protests, and the presence of Antifa and BLM primed me to think the worse of how the George Floyd death was handled). Your calm and systematic explanation of the evidence and analysis that led to your opinion was a welcome dose of rationality and integrity during a time when both seem to be in short supply.
Just to think about, your response is typical of people not cognizant of their own prejudices. Many people, those of color and white people who are aware of how prejudice works did not accept the Carlson statement knowing it was not based on fact but prejudice. Such is the difference of real experience as opposed to attitudes taught without fact.
I was not aware that Tucker Carlson weighed in on this subject. Multiple sources had posited the fentanyl overdose angle long before the verdict was reached. I reacted to Dr. Kory because I was aware of his advocacy during the Covid crisis and the cancelling and censorship he experienced. Nonetheless, I am unclear about the nature of unconscious prejudice you are referring to regarding my response. Could you elaborate?
Let me help. "tanya marquette" thinks all white people are racist. There are many like her, which is why the term "racist" now falls flat on its face, as it should.
I hope that wasn't the assumption she was operating under because I am Black (and not of the self hating variety).
I'm sure "tanya marquette" will be back around shortly to explain how Black men can also be white racists. I believe Larry Elder was accused of that not long ago, lol.
When you provide the trigger words, she'll jump in with 'how racist you are.' Her ... "measuring device" is out of kilter.
Much like the term “woke”
“Politically correct” worked fine to express similar contempt and disdain - but it’s use requires too many syllables for those fond of spewing it.
Kory's written report was filed 6-9-2020, the same day GF was buried in TX. The only info Kory had was what was given to him by GF atty's. At that time even the officers body cams were being withheld, coroner was "pressured". Alpha News in MN does updates on this and in Nov. is releasing a documentary. Kory's report was then held until the 7th juror was being selected in the criminal trial. Kory never did testify in terms of being on site or cross examined, his stale limited report was just used to extort $$$$ from extremely compromised Mpls city council.
I appreciate the additional context, but I don't know if it necessarily follows that there was anything slanted or inaccurate about Dr. Kory's analysis. I would be interested in any information that was obtained after Dr. Kory filed his report that could have impacted his findings. Regardless of what Dr. Kory's findings were, the way this case was covered in the media, and how groups like BLM and Antifa made their presence felt during the trial, I still feel this tragedy was driven by desires to push political agendas rather than a search for the truth.
" I did not observe shallow or slowed breathing until he was put into prone restraint (i.e. face and chest down on a hard surface)"
So, why was he complaining about inability to breath in the police car several times, once when just sitting, other times when half sitting half laying, probably uncomfortable, not not quite like being held to the ground.
E.g. around 18:30, then 19:20... where he was not on his chest bur rather sitting angled 45° or so.
https://rumble.com/v1akq4q-full-george-floyd-body-camera-2-released.html
What was his problem there?
This right here is what I cant get past.
Anxiety is a common cause of difficulty breathing. Floyd became anxious at the mere thought of going back to jail. The first step in that is getting into a police cruiser. He had a genuine panic attack and this is not uncommon. People with claustrophobia, which is a form of anxiety have difficulty breathing and this is why some people cannot have an MRI of the spine.
Pierre, I appreciate your honesty and truthfulness and prioritizing facts.
Wow, Igor!! Thanks my friend, please know how much I appreciate, respect, and admire your work in Covid, it has been unparalleled and so I take your comment as high praise.
Two problems. First you were hired by the party that "wanted" to prove it was murder. Second, I find much of your rambling analysis "subjective" and therefore an opinion. Perhaps the officer contributed to Floyd's death with his actions. To what extent is unknowable. But, to ignore toxicology or even include it in your report, forces your predetermined conclusion. To the extreme, you moved the "I can't breathe" from the police car to the street - a lie. You gave the Jury what they wanted to hear and you were compensated for that. People lie for a price. You should be ashamed, not proud of your work.
When I taught medicine, one of the oldest adages I passed on to students in how to apply the results of an abnormal chest film or lab test to an individuals situation is "Look at the patient, not the picture" (meaning that often abnormal test or imaging results prove insignificant or only marginally significant in your assessment if the patient is feeling well or their physiologic function does not match what the test result suggests). The clinical condition of the patient is paramount over test results. Again, he exhibited no signs of SEVERE opiate intoxication and to argue that he did is unsupported by all the videotaped evidence and knowledge of how opiates cause death. See my below comment on the insignificance of him saying "I can't breathe" earlier in the episode, but I suspect it won't matter, you have reached your own conclusion, as we all must.
Thanks for your detailed explanation, Dr Kory. Hopefully Tucker will invite you on for a conversation involving much more than this subject.
I'd really like to make this suggestion to Tucker!
While I would never challenge your medical determinations, as I am not in that profession, I did watch the police bodycam video from the time George Floyd was located inside a small car with all the doors and windows shut (which contradicts his claim of claustrophobia). After being asked to get out of the car, he was handcuffed. The police then walked him down a sidewalk to the police car. All the while George Floyd was being escorted to the police car, he was claiming he could not breathe. There was no restraint on him other than hands cuffed behind his back and the walking pace was normal, not rushed. Murder One was a purely panicked conviction status, due to the threat of rioting outside the courthouse. I hope an appeal is successful. While George Floyd did not deserve to die, neither did Officer Chauvin deserve a Murder One life sentence.
The words Floyd said earlier is irrelevant to my argument. It is simply the fact that during prone restraint he was able to voice words which indicated not only he was awake and talking but that air was passing through his trachea and vocal cords. He could have said "I am hungry" and my conclusion would have been the same. Him saying "I can't breathe" earlier in the arrest is also irrelevant but if I had to guess, I would say it was from his fear of being locked up/claustropobhia/panic - again, people really high on dope do not complain of anything, they are typically "feeling fine".. that is why they use dope..